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Hi Ysm
Yes but being ordained to be slain and being actually slain are not the same things, and as the scripture says slain past participle I believe it to be speaking of when Christ was actually slain.
Hi Scott... I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone believes that Christ was literally actually slain anytime except ~2000 years ago.
Hi Scott... I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone believes that Christ was literally actually slain anytime except ~2000 years ago.
Yes, in the same way the bible talks about the lamb who was slain before the world began, so to the bible teaches that I as a Christian have been chosen to be saved before the world began.
All this really means is that God left nothing to chance, that God is not held in time, God does not go moment-to-moment like all of creation does.
So in God's eyes, He is always just as much at the beginning of time, as with us now, as at the end of time.
I don`t hold them to a higher STANDARD than myself. But as far as their ACCOUNT of scripture and the reasons behind what they belief and why as compared to an independant thinker and bible student..those are seperate issues. I`m sorry if you don`t understand that. I`m not sure what that has to do with God being responsible for his creation or where you are trying to go with this.
I was not going anywhere with anything I was making a reply to something you said. If you had not brought it up to begin with I would not have had to make an answer to you.
Quote:
What error? Child having a tantrum? Pease keep this on an adult level and keep words like tantrums,silly accusations, and other derogatory terms out of this. If you are unable to do that than we can end the discussion. There is no need for personal attacks on here. Thank you.
Ok, I understand that you are very sensative about this like I pointed out in a previous post. It is clear from some of the words you have been using such as tantrums,silly accusations, silly phrases and the tone you seem to be conveying that you are very thinned skinned and are starting to take this post into a negative and personel direction. Obviously you do not like to be disagreed with and are resorting to personal attacks. So I will opt out of the discussion with you. God Bless
ROFL, brother I have very thick skin and nothing anyone says troubles me in the least because people don’t have that much power over me. What you mistake as me being sensitive is actually me speaking plainly about what has transpired. I realise many cannot handle being spoken to after that fashion, so I’ll try to put on the kid gloves so as not to offend.
In that light read my post 206 again and then read you post 209.
You had made statements about people not believing what the plain scriptures teach.
Saying things like
When God said he creates evil..you either believe it or you don`t.
God created satan..very plain.
God created the waster to destroy..very plain
I then proved that your understanding that scripture is very plain and you either believe it or you don’t was in error.
I provided different translations of what the scriptures (Hebrew and Greek) say that differ from the KJV, showing you everything is not so plain as you believed them to be.
I used your own logic when you speak to those who believe in eternal torment to show you that each and every word must be studied to get to find the treasure hidden therein.
And your response in post 209 did not address any of the proof I gave you concerning your statements. All you did throughout your whole post was to try to justify your original statements by confusing the issues with continual statements about translations and scripture. You did not make a defense for what you said, all you did was to go on the offense.
I don’t care if people agree with me or not, I am use to that being the case, but when someone enters a discussion with me they better be prepared to back up their statements, and if they cannot, to graciously concede the point so that we can move on to other matters.
So I’ll ask you one two part question: Do you still believe the translations of the Hebrew and Greek (scriptures) are a plain as you made them out to be? Or do you believe each and every word of the Hebrew and Greek must be searched out that we might find the treasures hidden therein?
Hi Scott... I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone believes that Christ was literally actually slain anytime except ~2000 years ago.
Hi Bob, I realsie that brother, but the case in point is the scripture say "slain" which is past participle, meaning it was something that has already happened.
Everyone agrees that Jesus was slain 2000 years ago.
That prophesy and foreknowledge led up to this point.
Therefore, in light of the prophesies and foreknowledge of when Christ would be slain and that slain is past participle how can that scripture be seen as Jesus being slain some 6000 years ago?
how can that scripture be seen as Jesus being slain some 6000 years ago?
Because when you look at the cross in the timeless eyes of God, (and that is the POV of this text) the events of the cross have been just as much a done deal billions of our years ago as they were 2000 years ago.
There is no difference! Billions of years in the past,or billions of years into the future are the same moment!
Umm, how shall I explain this?
.............?????????______??????.......
Okay, I have an idea how to explain this to everyone.
Humans look at the passing of time in the world as like a person reading a book.
We read one page after another.
Yes, God might grant us the "2nd sight" to flip ahead to a future chapter and read a little from there, but even then we must stop to read that future page one word at a time.
That is the way time passes for us human.
One moment follows another, one second passed to be replaced by another.
God does not see the world in such a manner.
How does God look at the world and history?
the answer is that God looks at the creation and the history both past,present and future the way a person looks at a painting.
There is no start to the painting, no middle to looking at it, and no ending of the painting where you are finished .
There is no "before" in a painting, there is no "time line"in a painting.
You dont look at a painting the way you read a book.
You dont scan the top 1/4inch of painting left to right, then drop down a 1/4 inch and scan that next line of paint.
The painting is taken in as a whole, all at one time, all points being just as important as all other points.
This means that God is forever watching you being born,
Forever watching you die and has forever been watching His Son die on the cross....
And this is why the Bible can look at the story of the Lamb slain before the world began and speak to us about it and tell us that it Has Already happened!
Last edited by alanMolstad; 07-26-2009 at 09:06 AM..
Because when you look at the cross in the timeless eyes of God, (and that is the POV of this text) the events of the cross have been just as much a done deal billions of our years ago as they were 2000 years ago.
Because when you look at the cross in the timeless eyes of God, (and that is the POV of this text) the events of the cross have been just as much a done deal billions of our years ago as they were 2000 years ago.
There is no difference! Billions of years in the past,or billions of years into the future are the same moment!
Umm, how shall I explain this?
.............?????????______??????.......
Okay, I have an idea how to explain this to everyone.
Humans look at the passing of time in the world as like a person reading a book.
We read one page after another.
Yes, God might grant us the "2nd sight" to flip ahead to a future chapter and read a little from there, but even then we must stop to read that future page one word at a time.
That is the way time passes for us human.
One moment follows another, one second passed to be replaced by another.
God does not see the world in such a manner.
How does God look at the world and history?
the answer is that God looks at the creation and the history both past,present and future the way a person looks at a painting.
There is no start to the painting, no middle to looking at it, and no ending of the painting where you are finished .
The painting is taken in as a whole, all at one time, all points being just as important as all other points.
This means that God is forever watching you being born, Forever watching you die and has forever been watching His Son die on the cross....
And this is why the Bible can look at the story of the Lamb slain before the world began and speak to us about it and tell us that it Has Already happened!
I understand God is outside of time, but the scriptures make it very plian imo that Jesus was to die ONCE and that DEATH was to take PLACE in these LAST DAYS.
Therefore, His death did not or cannot be refering to some 6000 years ago.
We can all guess about what something means to God to look at outside of time, but that is all it is, a guess.
I only go by what the scriptures state about when He was slain, anything else is guesswork.
Hi Bob, I realsie that brother, but the case in point is the scripture say "slain" which is past participle, meaning it was something that has already happened.
Everyone agrees that Jesus was slain 2000 years ago.
That prophesy and foreknowledge led up to this point.
Therefore, in light of the prophesies and foreknowledge of when Christ would be slain and that slain is past participle how can that scripture be seen as Jesus being slain some 6000 years ago?
I'm not sure I understnad the issue about the past tense. If God is now looking into the past (foundation of the world) and at that time Christ was already ordained to be slain, then I would expect "slain" to be in the past tense.
For example "have made" is in the past tense just like "slain" even though it hadn't literally happened yet, in the mind of God it had (God was calling things which are not yet as though they were).
Roman 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, [even] God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
As I've said before, I don't know if "from the foundation of the world" refers to "slain" or "written in the book of life" since the translations are about 50/50. I don't see any logical reason that either transation can not be correct.
I only go by what the scriptures state about when He was slain, anything else is guesswork.
Yes, and that is why the Bible states that Jesus died on the cross before the world began.
Before time was created...
Before the first second of creation had ticked.
Before the words "before and after" had their meanings....
Even then, Jesus was already slain.
And in this same manner, the Bible also speaks to us about our own salvation.
I am saved. And the bible tells me that I was picked out , numbered, counted, and saved before the world began by God.
Everything was already accomplished before it began...
This is the meaning to the text that says that Jesus Christ is the lamb slain before the foundation of the world.
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