How can all be saved when jesus said...... (Kingdom, verses, translation)
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I will get shot down for this , but don't you think the deciding factor in interpretation should be the nature and character of God revealed by the Holy Spirit.
I highlighted quite a few things... and cut out a lot of others... Do you have a computer program doing this for you and you look it up? or what? You say one cannot understand cuz they cannot read it as you can but then you say all one has to do is "look it up"
WAY off topic but... so confused. Do you know how to translate better than the ones who translated the versions we have or what? Not sure I understand anything other than your slightly condescending tone. Hebrew and Greek and Arabic are complex languages and ancient versus modern are different... so it is hard for me to understand how you can say you know enough about them to decipher that the translations are wrong in the versions given us. Besides... would you say that since you are able to READ it and not use a translation then translations, ie versions, must be blasphemous? See why I am confused?
"If then we are to speak of the language and philosophy in and from which the Old Testament was written we need to look at Paleo-Hebrew, or North Semitic as it is often called, and not to Classical Hebrew. In this there is one set back; most of the Hebrew scriptural text we have readily available today is written in the Post-Babylonian square Classical Hebrew characters. What good does it do us to know the language in which scripture was originally written, if it is no longer available? To understand and properly address this question we must look at the essential elements of both the Classical Hebrew, and Paleo-Hebrew languages." ..."The value of a language rests in its ability to convey truth. Can Greek do this? Yes, the student must however be mindful of the primitive heathen elements contained within it. We must keep in mind that the language has many non-Adamic elements, and is in fact based upon pagan Polytheism. Greek, in form and philosophy, centers itself on the idea of three (trinitarianism). Three tenses, three genders, the trinity of man, etc. The linguistic form is descended from the philosophy of the people. In striving to understand man, and his composition the Greeks hypothesized man to be composed of three parts. First there was the mechanical, physical - the body. Next there was the emotional and logical - the soul. The third component of man was the ethereal - the spirit. These three components were each related to the three principal deities of all pagan polytheistic cultures, Horus, Isis, Osiris (Father, Son, Mother) or Siva, Vishnu, and the Lord Brahma (perhaps more on this later)." Taken from the essay found at Greek VS Hebrew, or what language does Yahweh speak?, emphasis in bold is mine.
Many great items of study that combine/believe in God/Jesus. As a proponent of study I belive you would love to check it out.
But as far as this thread goes... the theory that you have it right because you can read greek or hebrew does not make the "all saved"= wrong or "some saved"= right.
Sorry, if I leave something out, there is so much here and hard to read without the spacing.
I have the Hebrew and Greek bible in front of me that I use and read. I have other materials, dictionary, and software to check after myself and many others as well as my professor.
Our english bible comes from the Jewish bible, so it is better to learn the language because words that were in the Jewish bible, we don't have words to match it. When you read the Jewish bible, you will get a better understanding and meaning of the bible than just reading the english bible.
When you are taught the language, you are taught to translate it back as best as possible to the Jewish bible. So, there are often times when people or certain software translates it, it can sometime be wrong in error. There are sometimes, as I notice when someone copy and paste, there text is not set right or the hebrew and greek is not set on their computer, as that is said, when you copy and paste it, you are not really pasting the correct scripture.
But just like you said, if you are not taught the correct grammer, then copying and pasting want really help you if you don't know what you are copying and pasting, because some words can be out of place or letters dropped off.
I didn't say that the versions that yall have is wrong, I simply saw a scripture that was not translated right. I could tell that the person only copy and pasted, not sure where and why it was translated that way. I was also wondering if the person actually knew what they pasted. There is not wrong with copying something, as long as you know what it is.
Yahweh speaks all languages. But it is apparent that he spoke the language hebrew, greek, and arabic to the Jewish people. That is why it is in that language. That is the I get. So, I take it that is the language they spoke, then that is the language he spoke to them. So, I take it they wrote the scriptures in what they could speak. So, that leave a job for us, to learn that language, so we can speak, read, and understand what was going on in that time.
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But as far as this thread goes... the theory that you have it right because you can read greek or hebrew does not make the "all saved"= wrong or "some saved"= right.
I am not basing my knowing another language that all men will not be saved. I am merely reading scripture. I even read that in english. Jesus even said to some that you refuse to come to me to have life.
So, my thing is, if anyone refuses to come to Jesus, how can they have life?
Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 09-05-2009 at 04:59 PM..
I'm not going around in circles either, even if I posted post numbers and quoted what you said showing you are now saying something different from what you did say, what would it mean to you? Nothing.
This is true, and that's all it needs to mean. And it still does not contradict this
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Is there any scripture that says those who are not in the book of life will be brought out of that fire as some believe?
Also, since you don't want to use hebrew and greek, then we will use thses.
Matthew 25:46
says, “Then they [the unsaved] will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” According to this verse, the punishment of the unsaved is just as eternal as the life of the righteous.
Matthew 25:41
Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Acts 4:12, 1 timothy 2:5, John 14:6
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Matthew 7:13
Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
Also, Matthew 7:21-23 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!
So, my question is this if Jesus is saying that some will not enter the kingdom of heaven, then how are those who have departed frome Him that He says will not enter, get there as you say?
Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 09-05-2009 at 04:59 PM..
It boggles the mind how someone can use a part of a verse in Revelations and say it is literal and another part and say it is figurative.... Death and hades cast into the same lake of fire that the people that are not in the book of life are cast into. the people who were in hades are delivered from it and then those not found in the book who came out of death and hades are thrown into the same lake of fire as death and hades .... So is the book of life a literal book? Are death and hades physical things? are the people literally people?
Yes, they are. Show me scripture that says other wise.
21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"
22Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.[f] 23"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents[g] was brought to him. 25Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt. 26"The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' 27The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go. 28"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii.[h] He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded. 29"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.' 30"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened. 32"Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured,until he should pay back all he owed. 35"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."
When we are unforgiving we are in a prison of our own making , and remain there UNTIL we payback all we owed.
The Keyword is until.
Thank the Lord for the until .
What a lot of christian are not aware of is when you stand in judgement of sin or what you perceive to be sin in others, you are in unforgiveness , not understanding what great mercy the Lord had on you.
These verses do NOT prove universalism. This is talking about fellow brothers and sisters IN Christ who claim to do the will of the Father, yet do not. This is talking about OUR judgments, not that of the whole world. Sorry, but not many believers think that they will not be temporarily punished for what they have done against the will of God after coming to the knowledge of the Truth.
This is stressing the importance of forgiving one another, and living Christ-like. Doesn't say anything about the unbelievers. Hense, servants to the King. Bond-slaves. Subjects. However you want to say them, but it is talking about THEM.
These verses do NOT prove universalism. This is talking about fellow brothers and sisters IN Christ who claim to do the will of the Father, yet do not. This is talking about OUR judgments, not that of the whole world. Sorry, but not many believers think that they will not be temporarily punished for what they have done against the will of God after coming to the knowledge of the Truth.
This is stressing the importance of forgiving one another, and living Christ-like. Doesn't say anything about the unbelievers. Hense, servants to the King. Bond-slaves. Subjects. However you want to say them, but it is talking about THEM.
It actually doesn't mention believers or unbelievers. It's talking about a principle of God that we (whether we are a believer or not) reap what we sow.
I do have one question for you though, what did the servant do to get his debt cancelled ?.
Sorry, if I leave something out, there is so much here and hard to read without the spacing.
Thank you for the clarification there and sorry about the spacing.. I try not to make most posts terribly long but it seems they end up that way with or without the spacing
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I am not basing my knowing another language that all men will not be saved. I am merely reading scripture. I even read that in english. Jesus even said to some that you refuse to come to me to have life.
So, my thing is, if anyone refuses to come to Jesus, how can they have life?
How do you define life? Life as in "I am alive" or life as in "eternal life"
To me the two definitions are the same. Most of what Jesus taught was about how to live one's life.
Originally Posted by katjonjj: It boggles the mind how someone can use a part of a verse in Revelations and say it is literal and another part and say it is figurative.... Death and hades cast into the same lake of fire that the people that are not in the book of life are cast into. the people who were in hades are delivered from it and then those not found in the book who came out of death and hades are thrown into the same lake of fire as death and hades .... So is the book of life a literal book? Are death and hades physical things? are the people literally people?
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Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828
Yes, they are. Show me scripture that says other wise.
Yes what are.... clarification please.
Can put the verses out there and mark each as literal and each as figurative?
I asked several questions so I'm a bit confused by the vague response.
Thanks!
Who chooses God? No one! so then,how is it possible that anyone can have life? With man nothing is possible. With God EVERYTHING is possible!
Yes, God can do all things, and apparently He can send you out of His sight.
Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!
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Do you know how to translate better than the ones who translated the versions we have or what? Not sure I understand anything other than your slightly condescending tone. Hebrew and Greek and Arabic are complex languages and ancient versus modern are different... so it is hard for me to understand how you can say you know enough about them to decipher that the translations are wrong in the versions given us. Besides... would you say that since you are able to READ it and not use a translation then translations, ie versions, must be blasphemous? See why I am confused? 
