If Christians can still sin willfully and be justified, then why .... (woman, Revelation)
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Trust me...I do not have to study this nonsense. Your version of satan is totally different from mine...yours is based on conjecture...mine is based on scripture. There is not one thing satan has done that hadn't been planned out by God long ago. God created satan and used him for his purposes exactly the way He wanted to. There is no struggle between God and satan...satan did exactly as he was told to do and if you doubt that then you know nothing of the Sovereignty of God.
Then you have made your choice to remain in ignorance of the truth. Carry on.
Arrogance can cause both angels and man to think and act in illogical ways. Pride can make both angels and man think more highly of themselves than they should.
God is in complete control and the fallen angels have no chance of successfully opposing God. But God is giving them the opportunity to try. God is doing this for His glory.
It is not my angelic conflict. Why don't you go do some serious research on the subject and find out what it is all about. But that's right. You don't even believe in Satan and not much of anything that the Bible teaches. So why bother?
Okay, let's say you are right. That God gave the angels the chance to try to overthrow Him. Then they were arrogant and prideful... what caused the arrogance and pride? What soft spot in God's armor gave them the cause for arrogance and pride?
So the angels must have known they would not stand a chance of defeating God, right? Yet they are overcome with human emotions of pride and arrogance. right?
Then we are back to square one. Either God can be conquered as the angels seem to have thought or He can't be conquered and the angels were imputed with human traits. What is the problem here? You can't have both. Either the angels were angels and truly could have defeated God thus this was where their arrogance stemmed or they had no chance in which case they would have abandoned the thought before it came to them... you just cannot have it both ways.
Arrogance can cause both angels and man to think and act in illogical ways. Pride can make both angels and man think more highly of themselves than they should.
God is in complete control and the fallen angels have no chance of successfully opposing God. But God is giving them the opportunity to try. God is doing this for His glory.
It is not my angelic conflict. Why don't you go do some serious research on the subject and find out what it is all about. But that's right. You don't even believe in Satan and not much of anything that the Bible teaches. So why bother?
Where praytell do we find this angelic conflict that opposes God or that God allows in scripture? I would like to see specific scripture references.
Okay, let's say you are right. That God gave the angels the chance to try to overthrow Him. Then they were arrogant and prideful... what caused the arrogance and pride? What soft spot in God's armor gave them the cause for arrogance and pride?
So the angels must have known they would not stand a chance of defeating God, right? Yet they are overcome with human emotions of pride and arrogance. right?
Then we are back to square one. Either God can be conquered as the angels seem to have thought or He can't be conquered and the angels were imputed with human traits. What is the problem here? You can't have both. Either the angels were angels and truly could have defeated God thus this was where their arrogance stemmed or they had no chance in which case they would have abandoned the thought before it came to them... you just cannot have it both ways.
Kat...you will never get a plausible answer on this. This poster is so bogged down in his man made religious dogma that it is beyond hope of ever opening up his mind that he may be wrong about any of this. As if God struggles for power with something he created....LMAO
Kat...you will never get a plausible answer on this. This poster is so bogged down in his man made religious dogma that it is beyond hope of ever opening up his mind that he may be wrong about any of this. As if God struggles for power with something he created....LMAO
Yes it's a loaded question. There is no answer that you can say and still believe it and God's sovereignty at the same time. But to some Christians there are many gods, and yes satan would be a god if he had any hope of defeating God. LOL
So simple but devastating to the doctrine of angelic conflict at the same time.
I have already given ample scripture in my posts on this thread. See them.
I will pull them up for you Christy:
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Originally Posted by Mike555
No! God created the world, including Adam, in a state of perfection. But God gave man free will just as He gave the angels free will. And just as with their free will the angels had the ability to rebel against God, as one third of them did in fact do, God also gave man free will so that he would have the ability to choose for or against God. God doesn't want slaves who don't have the ability to decide if they want a relationship with God or not. God wants a relationship with those who want a relationship with Him. And so free will is the most basic issue in the creation of not only angels, but also of man.
But with free will comes consequences which arise from those volitional choices. So with the negative volition of those who rebel against God and who choose to follow their own desires, coupled with the fact that Satan is the ruler of this world until Christ returns, and that it is Satan's attempt to control this world that he rules, we have the mess the world is in.
When the Bible says that God grieves, or gets angry, or that God hates, or that He repents (changes His mind), these are anthopopathisms. The ascribing to God of human feelings or qualities that He doesn't really have, in order to explain and make understandable to the finite human mind, things of a divine and infinite nature which would otherwise be beyond human understanding. God graciously allows language of accomodation to explain His divine policies which stem from His holiness as they relate to sin and evil.
God didn't want for Adam to fall, He simply knew that Adam would choose to disobey, and He planned accordingly in order to bring about His ultimate purpose, which is to bring many son's into glory. (Hebrews 2:9-14).
God brought about the flood in order to wipe out the Nephilim which were the half angelic half human offspring of the angels that forceably raped human females with the intention of wiping out true humanity so that Christ could not come into the world as true humanity (Gen.6). This would have meant that God could not have kept His promise to bring a Savior into the world as He said He would.(Gen. 3:15). And Satan reasoned that if God could not keep His promise, then the integrity of God was not perfect and that He therefore would release Satan from his sentence to the lake of fire, which is to be carried out at the end of the Millennium.(Rev.20:10). Saying that God repented of making man is simply expressing God's policy in the execution of His justice as it related to the Nephilim.
In bringing the flood, God protected true humanity by bringing the only true humanity left in the world, Noah and his sons, and their wifes, safely through the flood.
and...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl This is purely speculation and none of it is biblical. God says none of this in His word. Do you honestly believe that satan does anything God has not given him to do?
Satans (Lucifers) moral fall and his sentencing to the lake of fire occurred before human history. (Isaiah 14:13-15)
The actual carrying out of the sentence to the lake of fire occurs at the end of human history. The end of the Millennium. (Revelation 20:10)
Satan and his angels are operational in the world today. (2 Cor.4:4)
Angels are intently interested in the affairs of men with relation to the Gospel of our salvation. These are 'things into which angels long to look.' (1 Peter 1:12).
Man was created lower or inferior to the angels. (Hebrew 2:7)
Believers will be ultimately higher or superior to the angels. (1 Cor.6:3; Heb.1:5-6.) Jesus Christ in His humanity is higher than the angels. Since Church Age believers are in union with Christ we too are positionally higher than the angels, and at the time of our bodily resurrection, we will be physically or ultimately higher than the angels.
Man is involved in the angelic conflict, the spiritual warfare which is going on all around us in the spiritual realm. (Eph.6:11-17)
The angels that were involved in the angelic infiltration of the human race during the antediluvian civilization which resulted in the Nephilim, are now imprisoned in Tartarus.(2 Peter 2:4-5 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hades and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; 5) and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;')
1 Peter 3:19-20 'in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, 20) who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the Ark in which a few, that is , eight persons, were brought safely through the water.
Lucifers title 'Satan' means 'adversary.' He is representing himself before God.
Now put all of this together.
Satan is being allowed by God to defend himself in his case against God. He is doing everything he can do within the rules that God has established by which Satan may operate in trying to have his sentence to the lake of fire overturned. Satan is on a leash so to speak, but is allowed a certain amount of lattitude in his defense.
It did not please God to simply carry out Satans punishment without first demonstrating to all of creation that God's punishment of the angels that rebelled is justified.
To that end He created the human race lower than the angels and having only free will in common with the angels. The premise is that if man can turn to God though never having been in the presence of God in the very throne room of God, and not knowing God as the angels had known Him, then the angels that rebelled against God are without excuse and God is justified in His sentencing of Satan.
And therefore this makes man's free will the most basic issue in the angelic conflict.
Now I realize that all of this is going to go right over the heads of those who insist on being skeptical of anything that contradicts their views, but for those who approach the Bible with the intention of honestly learning, then this information might just be of help to you.
and some more:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
Madam, I will once again list the verses that reveal:
Satan as the ruler of this world; John 12:31; 14:31; 16:11.
Satan as the prince of the power of the air; Eph2:2.
The world as Satan's domain; Job 1:7; 1 Peter 5:8.
Satans influence in human affairs; 1 Chronicles 21:1
Satan described as being the father of those who are not of God; John 8:44.
I have pointed out in both Ezekiel 28 and in Isaiah 14 that many of the things being said can apply only to Satan (Lucifer) and do not and can not apply to any human being.
Take out mans free will and the angels free will and it all falls down.
I have already given ample scripture in my posts on this thread. See them.
You have given nothing but your conjecture and speculation. There is no conflict between God and satan. God created satan...can we agree on this?
If God created satan...do you honestly think he is doing something God has not told him to do and acts of his own accord?
If you truly believe this then you know nothing of the Sovereignty of God and I suggest you start studying there so you can understand that first and foremost.
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