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p236 The Elements of the Word {Aion}
In further quest of just how God used {aioon}, let us now
examine both the inspired usage and analytical evidence found in
the inspired language of the Scriptures. We will first resolve
this word into the elements of which it is obviously composed.
Separated into these elements which are three, we have A, the
first element of this notable word is our {un}, frequently used as
a prefix in such words as {un}just, {un}lawful, {un}righteous, and
a host of other words of common occurrence in all our versions of
the sacred text. I, the second and root member of this word, has
an equivalent in our {if}. OON, the third and last element of
{aioon} is the present particle of {be}. Literally, then, these
three elements would demand it be rendered {un-if-being}, or,
{without any if} or {condition}, in the sense of {without fail},
but never {without end} in the sense of {time}, as has been held
and taught for centuries by our great, good and venerated erudite
ecclesiastical leadership of Christendom. Still closer
investigation reveals that when I, the second and root element in
{aioon} serves as a complete and independent word in itself, E
must be combined with it, which gives EI, a Greek word, rendered
{if} some three hundred times in our many versions of the
Scriptures. In {aioon} this E is completely absorbed by the
preceding A. Then again, if we segregate AI from OON in AIOON, and
restore the E to its place between the A and the I, we have AEI,
literally rendered, meaning {un-if}, without an {if}, in the sense
of {always, without fail}, but never {always}, meaning {forever}
or {eternal}, in any sense, as may be easily and convincingly
verified by an examination of its every occurrence in the Greek
Scriptures, all of which are here given: +Mark 15:8; Acts 7:51; 2
Corinthians 4:11; 6:10; Titus 1:12; Hebrews 3:10; 1 Peter 3:15 and
2 Peter 1:12. In its eight occurrences the Authorized Version
renders AEI {always} seven times and ever once.
+Mark 15:8 provides us with a concrete illustration of the
inspired usage of this word, {aei}, which should suffice to settle
once and for all time the meaning the Author of the Holy
Scriptures intended it to convey in its every occurrence in the
Greek text. Here Pilate is requested by the Jews to observe his
custom of releasing to them such prisoner as they desired, as he
had {aei, always}, done for them at this notable annual festival
since he had been their provincial governor, not {always}, in the
sense of {eternally}. The other seven occurrences in the inspired
text carry exactly the same meaning. The arbitrary
legerdemain-like juggling of this notable word and its elements by
our tradition obsessed ecclesiastical scholarship, to bolster up
and perpetuate the credal beliefs of apostate Christendom on human
destiny, will be found to be without a scintilla of scriptural
support once its analysis and inspired usage is allowed to speak
for itself.
Right here is where centuries of revered scholarship has
fatally tripped itself up, dragging a creed-enslaved Christendom
with it. Instead of correctly cutting this important word,
p237 Erroneous Renderings
in accord with its obvious elements, and heeding its inspired
usage, it has been haggled to pieces and revamped to serve human
creeds. {Always}, in the sense of {unfailing}, is very different
from {always}, in the sense of {everlasting} or {eternal}, but
easily manipulated to do yeoman service for the cause of error in
the hands of our venerated academic experts, who, themselves, are
hopelessly entangled in the apostasy of Christendom.
If, as +Hebrews 1:2 so clearly and explicitly avers, God made
the ages, through His Son, if there was {time before} them, as +2
Timothy 1:9 and Titus 1:2 insists there was, and they will come to
an end, as we are told in +1 Corinthians 10:11 and Hebrews 9:26
(Greek), how can any one of them, or all of them together, be made
to span an eternity without beginning or end? These ages represent
segments of {time}, therefore they cannot possibly be the
equivalent of infinite duration. The inspired usage must determine
for us the meaning of {aion}. Let us, therefore, dare to return to
the language of inspiration, regardless of how such return may
shatter whole systems of long-cherished and venerated theology,
fabricated and forged upon the anvil of error, camouflaged with
the mantle of scholarship.
In +Ephesians 2:2 the Authorized Version erroneously renders
{ton aioona tou kosmou} (the age of this world) by {the course of
this world}. Here age and world synchronize as to the length of
time they continue. This indicates that each world or physical
order or arrangement is measured by an age and vice versa. So
here, doubtless, we have a key which will enable us to determine
with great accuracy just how many ages and world systems are
covered by the subdivided great segment of time God has segregated
from infinite duration for the attainment of His great goal of the
universe, where these ages divide, where they begin and where they
end.
In the Greek Scriptures we have {aion} in three notable and
significant combinations: {the age of the age, the age of the ages
and the ages of the ages}. The erroneous rendering of these three
notable phrases by almost all our versions utterly fails to
preserve one of them in its inspired Greek form or convey its
obvious inspired meaning. Until the defenders of such pernicious
work can intelligently differentiate these notable combinations of
{aioon} and locate them in the eras where they clearly belong, and
relate them to the particular subjects they are intended to serve,
they should wholly refrain from assuming to teach anything on the
much controverted subjects of human destiny or God's goal of the
universe.
Had {aioon}, in all its occurrences in the Greek Scriptures,
been rendered concordantly and true to its Greek form, Christendom
today would be revelling in +1 Corinthians 15:22-28 instead of
hopelessly groping in the blackout of a dualism which deifies the
creature and degrades the Creator. Had our versions been
faithfully translated direct from the best Greek
p238 His Glorious Goal
manuscripts so far recovered, instead of being channeled for
centuries through corrupt and decaying Latin, it seems certain
that the Latin, {aeturnus}, our {eternal}, would never have fouled
the pages of Inspiration, or become such an integral part of the
chaos of our corrupt, and misleading theological terminology. The
present chameleon meaning imposed upon {aioon} is but the echo of
ancient pagan Greek authorities before God purged this word seven
times in His fiery crucible.
Let the sound words of the inspired language of the
Scriptures dissipate the mist of error that has long hid God's
goal of the universe from us; then we, too, will exult in a love
that will never lapse until its glorious objective is fully
attained. His glorious goal must remain an enigma to us until we
give His words their inspired meaning and cease to confuse terms
He employs in the processes He uses to attain His goal with the
goal itself. Unless He is the Originator of {ALL}, the Operator of
{ALL}, and the Disposer of {ALL}, in accord with +Romans 8:20;
11:36 and 1 Corinthians 15:22-28, in His great plan of the ages,
He has failed unspeakably beyond the failures of any or all of His
failing creatures. This is unthinkable! (Unsearchable Riches, vol.31, pp.237, 237)
If you want to know how i come about this just say so.
Last time I read this board doesn't allow this debate we have been having......am I wrong?
From what I have read of your posts, I gathered how you did come to this, but alas, I disagree. I too have had close friends commit suicide, die in the 911 attacks, and I know they weren't saved. Ironmaw, I am unsure as to where their destination is, but I do know, it is separate from God, and will be forever. Gehenna was a metaphor as to what was going to happen to them, and if we are to take Gehenna as that metaphor, then annihalation is most likely the most correct interpretation. I haven't come to this conclusion as of yet, however, it is plausible, that their souls are destroyed forever, as the case for the Valley of Himmon where the dead bodies were burned until ash...meaning...non-existent.
This purification doctrine is based of what? Brimstone? Absurd....as Sodom and Gomorrah experienced the same, and yet, it ceased to exist...there was no purification there was there?
The doctrine of UR, IMO, denies the purpose of the cross, and denies the plight of the saints in this life.
Why don't you just go back to doing drugs again, if you are eventually going to be saved in the end?
This is another doctrine of the flesh that doesn't want to be judged in the end, and suffer the consequences. This is a redundant theme that has existed for years, and will continue on for who know how long.
That's interesting that you should note that....do we really know what the 1st Century Christians wrote? No, we do not, because we do not have the original autographs. What we do have are the rewritten and edited versions of the scriptures from the Church of Rome...this is a historical fact.
This is the biggest problem I see in Christianity today...they claim that because there are so many copies of the scriptures that agree, it must be the true word. The question they need to ask is, where did these copies come from? So many claim the scriptures we have are inerrant and infallible and that is just false information. If the origins of the scriptures that I read came from the Church of Rome...can we call them inerrant and infallible...I think not.
I believe that there are many spiritual truths to be found in the scriptures we have but I in no way would base sound Godly doctrine on them alone and call that "Truth". Only God can give us the true "Spiritual Truth" we seek. If you truly want to seek the truth, take the time to study the earliest of our church fathers...there is plenty of information out there if one is willing to take the time and let go of the dogma and doctrine one has been reared with and open their spiritual minds to Gods Truth. Christianity today in no way, shape or form resembles that of the church of the 1st century.
Nothing...nothing...and nothing is of private interpretation. Not even UR.
Not even Full Preterism and so forth. The earliest manuscript of the New testament is the 2nd century....only about 40 years from the original authors. The Syriac version for Revelation begins with "I John, son of Zebedee, imprisoned on Patmos under the reign of Nero....."
Much of our translations is taken from the Syriac and Masoretic Text.
There will be a day when we all have it right, but for now, it appears that we must first overcome the plight in which Paul tried to beat iin our heads, to overcome the flesh. The entire church is guilty of this, including myself. By no means do I like the idea of my friends and family burning in hell, but alas, if it be so, what can I do about it. Cry?
Nothing...nothing...and nothing is of private interpretation. Not even UR.
Not even Full Preterism and so forth. The earliest manuscript of the New testament is the 2nd century....only about 40 years from the original authors. The Syriac version for Revelation begins with "I John, son of Zebedee, imprisoned on Patmos under the reign of Nero....."
Much of our translations is taken from the Syriac and Masoretic Text.
There will be a day when we all have it right, but for now, it appears that we must first overcome the plight in which Paul tried to beat iin our heads, to overcome the flesh. The entire church is guilty of this, including myself. By no means do I like the idea of my friends and family burning in hell, but alas, if it be so, what can I do about it. Cry?
When we truly accomplish that monumental feat of crucifying our flesh completely we will all see the real God.
There will be no families burning in "Hell" and I believe that one day God will reveal that to you.
In regards to the Septugiant...translated in the 3rd century BC by the very people that missed the entire prophecy of Christ 3 centuries later...apostate and disillusioned. Plus, there are countless texts that denotes "everlasting" in regards to God in the LXX, so your arguement concerning this is fruitless as well.
Yes ... excuse my error, but the Septuagint was what the early Christians accepted as a Greek translation of the old testament.
You say countless texts? Please do elaborate? were that roman Catholic texts? Were they written in Greek or in Latin?
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My arguement is that all these words are derived from AEI, which as you say and our concordances say, is what a person or deity does as in "always...etc".
The Greek AIONIOS is derived from AION and AEI, meaning that this "age" UR so vehemently testifies to mean "age binding" is in fact not age binding when it is termed to describe God and His power, etc, but it does when it is described to pertain to men, their souls after death, and their punishment. A circular arguement that loses its legs upon inception.
Here you are wrong, the word aionios is derived from the word aion with the sufix -ion added on ... It is the word aion which is reported by Aristotle to have been derived from the word aei, not aionios.
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You have to be consistent. You have to get a handle of the language and culture before you present your case, which UR hasn't done apparently, since its inception 2000 years ago; but then again, it began with the early fathers that still thought sin and death hadn't been defeated, so alas, they already erred before they even got into the doctrine of "universal salvation." They were already on the wrong path to begin with, therefore their entire foundation for their doctrine is situated on hollow ground.
I will not argue full preterism with you, but i will say that i trust the early Christians over your relatively new doctrines based on these things.
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Universal salvation is there for all mankind. Whether they are regenerated into it is another question. Christ died for all, but not all will enter the kingdom in Heaven. The church is the New Jerusalem, and the church, if it is bound to the tenets and doctrines of Christ, not the creeds or anyone else, will experience not only everlasting (AIONIOS) life, but will never, ever, ever experience death, but will experience resurrection.
Because Christ defeated sin in all those who walk in His light, so that they "might be saved." John 5:34
This is the revelation of Jesus Christ.
This is where your preterist arguments fall flat in my opinion. I have had many Christian friends and even family members die. You say they didn't die and i say they are in the grave right now even as we speak. But that is not the issue, the issue is whether or not the lake of fire is eternal torture or the final means of God to purify and refine the unbelievers so that they can be reconciled to him. At least that is what this thread is supposed to be about.
Last time I read this board doesn't allow this debate we have been having......am I wrong?
From what I have read of your posts, I gathered how you did come to this, but alas, I disagree. I too have had close friends commit suicide, die in the 911 attacks, and I know they weren't saved. Ironmaw, I am unsure as to where their destination is, but I do know, it is separate from God, and will be forever. Gehenna was a metaphor as to what was going to happen to them, and if we are to take Gehenna as that metaphor, then annihalation is most likely the most correct interpretation. I haven't come to this conclusion as of yet, however, it is plausible, that their souls are destroyed forever, as the case for the Valley of Himmon where the dead bodies were burned until ash...meaning...non-existent.
You know nothing until you are dead and then you tell me what the truth you know to be is. Until then we are left with only the cognitive abilities God has given us and the meanings of the symbols presented in regards these fiery judgments which he will have on unbelievers.
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This purification doctrine is based of what? Brimstone? Absurd....as Sodom and Gomorrah experienced the same, and yet, it ceased to exist...there was no purification there was there?
You sorely devalue the significance of the symbols which are given in association with the fiery judgments of God. If the symbol of sulfur were all there was to it i would not care to argue the point, but the use of the word Basanizo which is translated torment being in truth a touchstone used in the refining process of metals in order to test their purity specifically connects this fiery judgments of God on the unbelievers with many verses in the old testament that speak of Gods fiery judgments as a purifying process on those that are so judged ...
Mal 3:2-4
But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap: And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purifypurge them as gold and silver the sons of Levi, and , that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
Zec 13:9
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them:I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
Then the fact that brimstone was used as an incense for the purpose of sanctifying holy implements before they were used in religious ceremonies and also to ward off pestilence only further testifies of the fact that this fiery judgment is for the purpose of reconciling those that are judged by purifying them. Not to mention the obvious symbolic meaning of fire itself which is trans-formative and used for the purpose of purification throughout the world.
You may not accept this symbolic significance, but that is what it means regardless of whether you accept it or not. Why you choose to deny it and believe God will eternally damn those whom you claim to love who have died without being Christian is beyond me.
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The doctrine of UR, IMO, denies the purpose of the cross, and denies the plight of the saints in this life.
Wrong, it makes the purpose of the cross complete 100% and makes the true power of Christs sacrifice known to all people. Regardless of whether they believe it or not. You believe God is only victorious in Christ in a very small way while Satan and his works in sin and death have the far greater victory over God and his creation believing most humans will be either eternally tortured or forever under the power of death.
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Why don't you just go back to doing drugs again, if you are eventually going to be saved in the end?
I don't answer to you or any other man friend, i will live a life of liberty in Christ and not fear the wages of sin, knowing that my surety is in Christ who bought me and not in my own works to gain his favor. All things are lawful unto me, though not all things are expedient. Instead of trying to live a completely aesthetic life of puritanism(which can be frightfully unhealthy psychologically and emotionally if taken to the extreme), i choose to live by moderation and to trust Christ with the rest.
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This is another doctrine of the flesh that doesn't want to be judged in the end, and suffer the consequences. This is a redundant theme that has existed for years, and will continue on for who know how long.
I have been judged, am being judged, and will be judged as long as i live, right now my concern is not so much making clean the outside of the cup and the plate but i am currently working on cleaning the inside of the cup and the plate so that then the outside might become clean also. I am working on learning to love not only my friends and those who believe the same way I do as even the publicans do, but on loving my enemies as well, and those who do not believe the way i do ... accepting them for who they are and loving them without conditions, something i could never do when i believed the way you and most Christians on this planet have believed for so long.
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I am sorry about your brother. God bless you.
Thank you for your condolences, but he will be with the lord regardless of what you believe my friend. Of that i am certain, as certain as i am of anything.
Amen and Selah ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 10-20-2009 at 06:34 PM..
Good choice of scripture in Malachi and Zechariah, but undortunately they are only related to Christ and what the Christ event will be fulfilled in the first century alone. This is where our Preterist/Futurists views come into play.
But like the Lord has said, it is none of our business what and who He chooses to receive the blessings...right?
Wrong, it makes the purpose of the cross complete 100% and makes the true power of Christs sacrifice known to all people. Regardless of whether they believe it or not. You believe God is only victorious in Christ in a very small way while Satan and his works in sin and death have the far greater victory over God and his creation believing most humans will be either eternally tortured or forever under the power of death.
I believe Satan has been defeated. What is left here on earth is the evil in men's heart's. Just like Hitler and his folk are dead and gone, but white supremacy and racism still exists and he is worshipped. The powers of Satan has been defeated.
I am sure Mother Teresa had evil, dark thoughts. But it was through Christ, that none of us ever knew. So be it.
I would respond, but then we would get into the tenets of eschatology, where you and I appear to be in direct contrast. Either way, we both believe Christ is the Son and He died for our sins, so hey, what does it matter anyway. This is really about those who don't believe.
No problem. I have looked at preterism before, and can see how some of the beilefs work, but some things do not fit for me. Perhaps I will start a thread on it to ask some basic questions.
You are right we both believe Christ is the Son and died for our sins. I appreciate that, some people do not even think UR believers are saved.
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Why preach the gospel when they will be saved anyway?
Several reasons. But first of all, people are not saved "anyway". They are saved God's way - through and by Jesus.
Anyway, here are some reasons to preach the gospel:
1. We are commanded to preach the gospel
2. Its good news!
3. If we have good news, shouldn't we spread it? There are many in this world who need to hear some good news.
- people who are broken down, trapped in sin, and are ready to just die, not realizing there is a God who loves them
- people who are tormented because they think their loved ones are burning in fire for eternity
- people who don't understand that God is taking care of things in this world and will really wipe away every tear eventually
- people who are trapped in the endless cycle of materialism, always trying to find something to satisfy their spiritual need
etc.
Its truly good news - essentially, everything will work out ok in the end, we will no longer desire to sin, so there will be no more sin. And no more death, disease, sickness, war, etc. All will be alive. We will all be in God's image - the image of love. I can't think of any better news than that! Its meant to be shared. Unfortunately most people don't believe it yet.
Peace out...
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