Does GOd live by the laws which he has commanded humanity to obey? (beliefs, scriptures)
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Zephenia 3:8 Therefore wait upon me, saith the Lord, until the day when I rise up for a witness: because my judgment shall be on the gatherings of the nations, to draw to me kings, to pour out upon them all my fierce anger: for the whole earth shall be consumed with the fire of my jealousy. 9 For then will I turn to the peoples a tongue for her generation, that all may call on the name of the Lord, to serve him under one yoke. 10 From the boundaries of the rivers of Ethiopia will I receive my dispersed ones; they shall offer sacrifices to me. 11 In that day thou shalt not be ashamed of all thy practices, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: for then will I take away from thee thy disdainful pride, and thou shalt no more magnify thyself upon my holy mountain. 12 And I will leave in thee a meek and lowly people; 13 and the remnant of Israel shall fear the name of the Lord, and shall do no iniquity, neither shall they speak vanity; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed, and lie down, and there shall be none to terrify them.
Not true... I believe Jesus is going to come and judge the earth... Christ will not be showing favor to the wicked at that time...
"...for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. Let favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD."
Right, it's the EVERLASTING condemation part I reject. I believe God's mercy endures through the ages... so your "too late" part I reject.
Zephenia 3:8 Therefore wait upon me, saith the Lord, until the day when I rise up for a witness: because my judgment shall be on the gatherings of the nations, to draw to me kings, to pour out upon them all my fierce anger: for the whole earth shall be consumed with the fire of my jealousy. 9 For then will I turn to the peoples a tongue for her generation, that all may call on the name of the Lord, to serve him under one yoke. 10 From the boundaries of the rivers of Ethiopia will I receive my dispersed ones; they shall offer sacrifices to me. 11 In that day thou shalt not be ashamed of all thy practices, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: for then will I take away from thee thy disdainful pride, and thou shalt no more magnify thyself upon my holy mountain. 12 And I will leave in thee a meek and lowly people; 13 and the remnant of Israel shall fear the name of the Lord, and shall do no iniquity, neither shall they speak vanity; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed, and lie down, and there shall be none to terrify them.
Not true... I believe Jesus is going to come and judge the earth... Christ will not be showing favor to the wicked at that time...
"...for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. Let favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD."
Right, it's the EVERLASTING condemation part I reject. I believe God's mercy endures through the ages... so your "too late" part I reject.
You're taking a passage that has to do with God's future judgment of the Gentile nations that rise up against Israel in the tribulation, followed by Kingdom blessing under the Messiah after Israel has been restored (Zep. 3:8-20) and trying to apply it to the judgment of unbelievers who have been resurrected from Hades and are now in their resurrected bodies standing at the Great White Throne, and about to be cast into the eternal lake of fire. It's two entirely different things.
The Great White Throne judgment doesn't even begin until the conclusion of the Millennium, which is the last age in human history. Revelation 20:15 shows the unbelievers being cast into the lake of fire at the very end of human history, to Begin their eternal sentence.
You're taking a passage that has to do with God's future judgment of the Gentile nations that rise up against Israel in the tribulation, followed by Kingdom blessing under the Messiah after Israel has been restored (Zep. 3:8-20) and trying to apply it to the judgment of unbelievers who have been resurrected from Hades and are now in their resurrected bodies standing at the Great White Throne, and about to be cast into the eternal lake of fire. It's two entirely different things.
The Great White Throne judgment doesn't even begin until the conclusion of the Millennium, which is the last age in human history. Revelation 20:15 shows the unbelievers being cast into the lake of fire at the very end of human history, to Begin their eternal sentence.
The problem you are having is understanding that the purpose of Gods judgments are always the same. They are always for the purpose of teaching righteousness ... They are always remedial. Though they bring death to people in this life/age, they will bring life to the very same people in the ages to come.
Isa 26:9
With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
God anger will not last forever ... but his mercy will ...
Isa 57:16
For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.
Psa 136:26
Give thanks to the God of heaven because his mercy endures forever.
Mic 7:18
Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.
Gen 3:22 And Jehovah God said, Behold! The man has become as one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put forth his hand and also take from the Tree of Life, and eat, and live forever,
The reason God knows evil is because he creates it:
Isa 45:7 forming light, and creating darkness; making peace, and creating evil. I, Jehovah, do all these things.
The way I understand this (IMO), is that God creates evil to be the consequences of sin. Evil is a law to sin, if you will, as much as blessings are a law to righteousness.
So there is no miss understanding, I don't believe God creates or uses evil for the sake of evil though. He uses evil to illustrate, instruct, guide, chastise and prevent further sin by His creation. He creates evil for the sake of righteousness. Jehovah is truly good:
1Sa 2:2 None is holy like Jehovah, for there is none except You; yea, there is no rock like our God.
God did not create evil, humans did because when man first existed, and failed to received God's gift, we created evil by our very own thoughts and misdeeds. We were barbaric and saw a God that was barbaric. Jesus changed all that by proving that God is a God of Love. That God is not evil nor does God know evil until WE do the act. The bible in inaccurate in saying that God knows evil. It's a flawed book that people just keep on believing.
By the way, as I understand you biblers, Jesus did away with the OT and that God so why would you guys still quote from a book that you claim Jesus ended? Why not look at the NT in which Jesus fully explains His God of Love? Not enough barbarism in it for ya?
The problem you are having is understanding that the purpose of Gods judgments are always the same. They are always for the purpose of teaching righteousness ... They are always remedial. Though they bring death to people in this life/age, they will bring life to the very same people in the ages to come.
Isa 26:9
With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
God anger will not last forever ... but his mercy will ...
Isa 57:16
For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.
Psa 136:26
Give thanks to the God of heaven because his mercy endures forever.
Mic 7:18
Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.
I am having no problem understanding the fact that if you die without Christ then you die remaining in eternal condemnation. Again, you refuse to acknowledge what Bible teaches. You superimpose your notions of what the nature of God is, over what the Bible says He is. You will not realize that God does not overrule your decision to believe. He doesn't do it in time, and He doesn't do it in eternity. The unbeliever will be forced to acknowledge before he is thrown into the eternal lake of fire that Christ is Lord, but that has nothing to do with salvation. Again, you ignore the passages that tell you, even when Christ Himself says it, that you must believe in Him in order to be saved. And then you redefine other passages as meaning that you will be saved anyway after you die. You're in a cult. The Bible does not teach universal salvation. And you're are attempting to promote the false idea that people don't have to take the responsibility to make the personal decision to believe in Christ because they will believe after they die anyway.
God extends the offer of salvation and gives us time enough in this life to make that decision. Once you die, it is too late.
I am not going to keep repeating myself over and over again to you. You have demonstrated that you have no interest in trying to understand your error and that you are going to continue to try to foist your beliefs on other people, possibly resulting in someone not making the personal choice to believe in Christ. And you will answer to God for that.
God did not create evil, humans did because when man first existed, and failed to received God's gift, we created evil by our very own thoughts and misdeeds. We were barbaric and saw a God that was barbaric. Jesus changed all that by proving that God is a God of Love. That God is not evil nor does God know evil until WE do the act. The bible in inaccurate in saying that God knows evil. It's a flawed book that people just keep on believing.
By the way, as I understand you biblers, Jesus did away with the OT and that God so why would you guys still quote from a book that you claim Jesus ended? Why not look at the NT in which Jesus fully explains His God of Love? Not enough barbarism in it for ya?
The scriptures say that Jehovah creates evil (Isa. 45:7). Most of us will ask "why" Jehovah creates evil and why He created the tree of Knowledge of good and evil (Gen 2:9), and what the term "evil" means. I'm sure there will be many explanations. I gave mine and what I thought about it.
I like to read about Jesus too. Actually, we can know Christ by searching the OT scriptures. Jesus said to search the scriptures because they testify of Him. At the time, only the Hebrew scriptures (OT) existed.
The scriptures say that Jehovah creates evil (Isa. 45:7). Most of us will ask "why" Jehovah creates evil and why He created the tree of Knowledge of good and evil (Gen 2:9), and what the term "evil" means. I'm sure there will be many explanations. I gave mine and what I thought about it.
I like to read about Jesus too. Actually, we can know Christ by searching the OT scriptures. Jesus said to search the scriptures because they testify of Him. At the time, only the Hebrew scriptures (OT) existed.
By all means, keep believing the "scriptures". I'm just trying to understand, from a biblers perspective, if God is a God of Love, how could He create evil when all He knows is Love? Love does not create evil and you would see that if you love your own children or parents. If you love them, how could you be evil to them or teach evil from Love? I can't comprehend being or teaching my own child evil even when I have been treated evil. Just doesn't make sense to me.
By all means, keep believing the "scriptures". I'm just trying to understand, from a biblers perspective, if God is a God of Love, how could He create evil when all He knows is Love? Love does not create evil and you would see that if you love your own children or parents. If you love them, how could you be evil to them or teach evil from Love? I can't comprehend being or teaching my own child evil even when I have been treated evil. Just doesn't make sense to me.
I don't think God creates evil for the sake of evil. He uses it to bring about good, to chastise his people, to accomplish His will so we can partake in His holiness.
For example, and using only NT passages, consider:
2Co 12:7 And by the superabundance of the revelations, that I not be made arrogant, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan, that he might buffet me, that I not be made haughty.
1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, you being gathered together with my spirit also, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Co 5:5 to deliver such a one to Satan for destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Yet in light of this evil, God uses it for our good:
Rom 8:28 But we know that to the ones loving God all things work together for good, to those being called according to purpose;
And the reason He does so, is because He loves us:
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loves, He disciplines, and whips every son whom He receives."
Heb 12:7 If you endure discipline, God is dealing with you as with sons; for who is the son whom a father does not discipline?
Heb 12:8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become sharers, then you are bastards, and not sons.
Heb 12:9 Furthermore, indeed we have had fathers of our flesh as correctors, and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits, and we shall live?
Heb 12:10 For they truly disciplined us for a few days according to the thing seeming good to them; but He for our profit, in order for us to partake of His holiness.
I don't think God creates evil for the sake of evil. He uses it to bring about good, to chastise his people, to accomplish His will so we can partake in His holiness.
For example, and using only NT passages, consider:
2Co 12:7 And by the superabundance of the revelations, that I not be made arrogant, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan, that he might buffet me, that I not be made haughty.
1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, you being gathered together with my spirit also, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Co 5:5 to deliver such a one to Satan for destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Yet in light of this evil, God uses it for our good:
Rom 8:28 But we know that to the ones loving God all things work together for good, to those being called according to purpose;
And the reason He does so, is because He loves us:
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loves, He disciplines, and whips every son whom He receives."
Heb 12:7 If you endure discipline, God is dealing with you as with sons; for who is the son whom a father does not discipline?
Heb 12:8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become sharers, then you are bastards, and not sons.
Heb 12:9 Furthermore, indeed we have had fathers of our flesh as correctors, and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits, and we shall live?
Heb 12:10 For they truly disciplined us for a few days according to the thing seeming good to them; but He for our profit, in order for us to partake of His holiness.
See, I have to disagree with that.
You see, before I found my path to God, I was living in literal hell. I did drugs and was not the nicest person to be around.
Once I turned to God, I felt no evil from Him, only a love beyond imagining. His Love is what brought me out of the darkness. His Love brought me back from darkness so that I could be His child again since I neglected to be a part of Him. There was no evil that I felt from Him to get me back on the right path. He gave me a steady, guiding hand to hold and He comforted me when I thought I couldn't do it. His love for me is what I felt. Unconditional Love.
Evil is mans own creation and it's man who must rid himself of the evil tendencies.
When you are in Heaven to finish your journey, tell me then that God created evil. Tell me when you become Divine, that God created evil because I'll never believe it and you will change your mind. God is Love of the purest form. There is no evil in Him. Only evil can create evil.
Or does God tell us what righteousness is yet he himself does not live by the same righteous understanding? Christ tells us not to return evil for evil, and to love our enemies. Do you believe God will return evil for evil? Do you believe that God loves his enemies?
Simple. The laws were for us not Him.
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