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Thank you for the opportunity to explain my understanding which is not of me but, of the grace bestowed upon me by the Father/Cosmic Consciousness, relatively speaking of course. Lol
The world is relative and our experiences are relative, until we MERGE with THE FINAL TRUTH.
Namaste' brother Drifter.
Nice to meet with your humble acquaintance sir.
Here's what I see, but don't see, yet see, is what I am, yet I am nothing, yet I am, tells me that I am in a confused state of being, not knowing whether I'm here, there, yet I am here.
Whatever the explanation is given for what we are in this world can not be answered through the sciences but only through the spirit revelations from the Creator Himself, via the spirit.
The flesh is inhabited by a conscience that is designed to seek out something other than self, to find out just where self fits into the whole scheme of things.
Therefore, mankind in seeking out something other than self, through the ages has imagined every conceivable god into their existence in order to relate to, be part of and or to have an object for their worship.
All of Ocean Drifters explanations simply define the whole human psyche, physically and consciously.
Though I agree to the whole human psyche as defined, it simply leaves out the whole purpose of the coming of Christ!
If we take out Christ, then you are left to all of what you believe.
You see, Christ represents the works of God in our behalf, and the only work that can bring us to an awareness of who we are in respect to God, otherwise, we are lost in our own wonder.
The only progression there is spiritually, has to have begun with a birth, not a physical birth, but a spiritual birth, a birth not made with hands.
When that birth takes place, a grown person (Or at any age where acknowledgment is made) is a babe in Christ spiritually, and must feed from the tree of life to grow spiritually to adult hood.
Though the bible be written after the Christ, save the Torah, the master piece message given is that God so loved the world (His Creation) that He gave His only Begotten Son for it, to redeem it from its lost condition.
Now, if no credit is given to that message as written in the bible, I say, well....do as you like, believe what you want.
If that fulfills your life then so be it.
I do have to challenge it of course as a means of presenting an alternative view for those readers who will make up their own minds as to what they really want to believe.
There is definitely a pivot point, a fulcrum point in life's balance, where the balance must tip either way, and that point has to come either while we are yet alive in the flesh or at our departure from the flesh.
If at that point the balance is not tipped the other way, then the previous condition remains as if that point had never been reached.
The point is Jesus!
Either we recognize Jesus for who He was, what He did, and see the Fathers works plainly, the balance is not tipped.
Here's what I see, but don't see, yet see, is what I am, yet I am nothing, yet I am, tells me that I am in a confused state of being, not knowing whether I'm here, there, yet I am here.
Whatever the explanation is given for what we are in this world can not be answered through the sciences but only through the spirit revelations from the Creator Himself, via the spirit.
This exclusionary framework is NOT able fully to comprehend God or our purpose, Look3467 . . . ALL knowledge is of value. You are right about Jesus . . . but it is a "structural" phenomenon of the universe (God's consciousness) that connects ALL our consciousnesses to God through Jesus . . . it is NOT something WE can invoke . . . it is unavoidable . . . whatever anyone believes. God calls us ALL to Christ consciousness . . . it is not up to us. WE are responsible for our actions in manifesting Christ in our lives when we sense His urgings . . . or not.
This exclusionary framework is NOT able fully to comprehend God or our purpose
If we look at the resurrection of Jesus (That is if, one believes in His resurrection) mankind has its beginning there.
Not with Adam and Eve, but with Jesus.
If that being the case, mankind's existence since Adam is as Ocean Drifter explains concerning the human psyche.
It is a study of all aspects of the human and spiritual nature and a human mind determination as to what it is all about.
The study is all worth the words to explain it it, but still does not meet the requirements of the beginnings of mankind.
A rebirth is necessary for the conditions to change from a dead state to a live state.
Prior to the judgment of mankind on Jesus, and penalty paid, mankind existed in a dead state. Meaning with out life existence with God, but only in a holding state, be it whatever anyone wants to call it, hell, paradise.
The bible calls it prison.
So, life begins with Jesus as the beginning of mankind live.
Christos represents Consciousness.
Christ, whether he lived or not is,
Christ The Yogi.
The Conscience in mankind, collectively and individually.
'Where two or more are gathered, in my name, group consciousness, there Am I.'
The final step in the process of the cross (metanoia), crucible, is the manifestation of God.
When that happens, you as you knew your self before, are no longer, thus having been 'crucified' or 'Cross-ed', over.
The Science of Yoga answers this, as it has done since time immemorial.
The Indian Psyche is one of the Brightest on the Planet. India is the cradle of civilization. The sun rises in the East and lights the world.
The soul seeks rapture, the flesh chases urges and desires dictated, mandated by the ego in mankind. Discernment is KEY!
The act of detachment is the first step in the purification process designed to allow Spirit to manifest in this body-mind organism.
Ego (the Impostor) must be annihilated, so the rightful Heir can assume His appropriate station and rule as if He were in Heaven. It is like killing our divine double/twin, when we allow ego to rule us emotionally by our I.D. (instinctual drive) which is conditioned and enculturated according to our upbringing and our environment.
Man is seeking true self, "Who Am I", really, and the answer to that question is.
When Awareness (Father) Knows Sensation (Mother/thought/conception) Consciousness( (Son/conceived) is born.
This all plays out as the play of consciousness on the screen/scene/seen of Awareness, the Primordial Source of all that is and is not.
It is a matter of whether on can attune to that frequency/vibration known as God.
Once mankind has established the connection, the current of ambrosia, one can return as often and drink of the heavenly waters as one desires.
It is a stream that never runs dry. Eternal. http://theeternalmoment.com/consciou...ww-advaita-org
I wish you an epiphany, of sorts.
Warmest Bahai Wishes.
Namaste`
O Drifter
Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467
Here's what I see, but don't see, yet see, is what I am, yet I am nothing, yet I am, tells me that I am in a confused state of being, not knowing whether I'm here, there, yet I am here.
Whatever the explanation is given for what we are in this world can not be answered through the sciences but only through the spirit revelations from the Creator Himself, via the spirit.
The flesh is inhabited by a conscience that is designed to seek out something other than self, to find out just where self fits into the whole scheme of things.
Therefore, mankind in seeking out something other than self, through the ages has imagined every conceivable god into their existence in order to relate to, be part of and or to have an object for their worship.
All of Ocean Drifters explanations simply define the whole human psyche, physically and consciously.
Though I agree to the whole human psyche as defined, it simply leaves out the whole purpose of the coming of Christ!
If we take out Christ, then you are left to all of what you believe.
You see, Christ represents the works of God in our behalf, and the only work that can bring us to an awareness of who we are in respect to God, otherwise, we are lost in our own wonder.
The only progression there is spiritually, has to have begun with a birth, not a physical birth, but a spiritual birth, a birth not made with hands.
When that birth takes place, a grown person (Or at any age where acknowledgment is made) is a babe in Christ spiritually, and must feed from the tree of life to grow spiritually to adult hood.
Though the bible be written after the Christ, save the Torah, the master piece message given is that God so loved the world (His Creation) that He gave His only Begotten Son for it, to redeem it from its lost condition.
Now, if no credit is given to that message as written in the bible, I say, well....do as you like, believe what you want.
If that fulfills your life then so be it.
I do have to challenge it of course as a means of presenting an alternative view for those readers who will make up their own minds as to what they really want to believe.
There is definitely a pivot point, a fulcrum point in life's balance, where the balance must tip either way, and that point has to come either while we are yet alive in the flesh or at our departure from the flesh.
If at that point the balance is not tipped the other way, then the previous condition remains as if that point had never been reached.
The point is Jesus!
Either we recognize Jesus for who He was, what He did, and see the Fathers works plainly, the balance is not tipped.
Thus, remains as it were.
Blessings, AJ
Last edited by Ocean Drifter; 02-21-2010 at 03:26 PM..
Christos represents Consciousness.
Christ, whether he lived or not is,
Christ The Yogi.
The Conscience in mankind, collectively and individually.
'Where two or more are gathered, in my name, group consciousness, there Am I.'
The final step in the process of the cross (metanoia), crucible, is the manifestation of God.
When that happens, you as you knew your self before, are no longer, thus having been 'crucified' or 'Cross-ed', over.
The Science of Yoga answers this, as it has done since time immemorial.
The Indian Psyche is one of the Brightest on the Planet. India is the cradle of civilization. The sun rises in the East and lights the world.
The soul seeks rapture, the flesh chases urges and desires dictated, mandated by the ego in mankind. Discernment is KEY!
The act of detachment is the first step in the purification process designed to allow Spirit to manifest in this body-mind organism.
Ego (the Impostor) must be annihilated, so the rightful Heir can assume His appropriate station and rule as if He were in Heaven. It is like killing our divine double/twin, when we allow ego to rule us emotionally by our I.D. (instinctual drive) which is conditioned and enculturated according to our upbringing and our environment.
Man is seeking true self, "Who Am I", really, and the answer to that question is.
When Awareness (Father) Knows Sensation (Mother/thought/conception) Consciousness( (Son/conceived) is born.
This all plays out as the play of consciousness on the screen/scene/seen of Awareness, the Primordial Source of all that is and is not.
It is a matter of whether on can attune to that frequency/vibration known as God.
I wish you an epiphany, of sorts.
Warmest Bahai Wishes.
Namaste`
O Drifter
OK, what if......one lives and dies without reaching that point of "Once mankind has established the connection" as you speak, what then is the resultant after death of the body?
OK, what if......one lives and dies without reaching that point of "Once mankind has established the connection" as you speak, what then is the resultant after death of the body?
Blessings, AJ
Conscience (Son of Man , or consciousness, which could have been acquired in the flesh but wasn't, can now finally, in the death/demise of the mind-body organism, arise to the station of Son of God (less the physical attachment to the body (world), One, Consciousness finally dawns(reality)and not the illusion of reality, and the real 'reality' sets in, as the unseen has been alluded too here and now, and 'C'onsciousness, having arisen to the elevated State thereof, in reality the Son of God) will hold ego (son of man) accountable.
Eventually, millenia maybe, the connection/attachment/pergatory between the soul and the flesh will desolve in the blaze of the Spirit, in the 'C'onsciousness of the hereafter (less the physical mind-body organism, but another 'being' altogether, since energy cannot be destroyed, will arise in Cognizance/Awaken to its true state or the essence, unseen/unknown, it always was and always will be, but, in the flesh was never known as such, the illusion of the physical (ego/veil) is very difficult to break free from, see through in our psyche.
Death conquers all except Spirit.
Spirit rules. http://www.firstpeople.us/FP-Html-Le...-Cherokee.html
Spirit conquers death, 1st Corinthians 15:35-58 N.I.V. Become One with the Spirit Lord who abides within, it's the only ticket, and it's out of this world and into the next. Worth the price of admission and, Admission is free for the asking. But it will cost 'you' every thing.
Happy Trails to you... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k8k4...eature=related
Namaste`
Drifter
Last edited by Ocean Drifter; 02-21-2010 at 07:43 PM..
Conscience (Son of Man , or consciousness, which could have been acquired in the flesh but wasn't,
Mankind is born with a conscience (Adam), as it is the life of the body (Eve)
together a living soul.
Yet as a living soul a god.
A god can not co-exist with God, so one has to go.
The lost one is the god, mankind.
Did not loose its conscience, but lost its soul, as in not having the ability to life after death, but chained to, trapped in a world created to test the soul.
By necessity, the dead, yet living soul must have a rebirth, in order to gain excess to life from the dead.
That is what is the central point is about why Jesus came.
Quote:
can now finally, in the death/demise of the mind-body organism, arise to the station of Son of God
"...can now finally"... agreed, but not before a rebirth, unless it is done at the point of death of the physical.
Those who had not the privilege of knowing the Christ are among the dead not excluded by Jesus at His resurrection.
As for "reality", it is no illusion, but real. You hurt, you cry, you love, you hate.
What is an illusion is to think to believe that we can ascend to a spiritual level in a reality state, and dismiss reality as just an illusion.
Why then the contest?
The contest, reality is what brings out the supposed good, or the supposed evil, in what is an apparent attempt at futility to reach a level of spiritual height, as to think to ascend to the place of God, without the help of God.
That notion, in itself is called enmity with God. Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Individuality, self, independent self as a god is enmity against God, and one must go.
The only possible way for self to become subject to the law of God and live, is to surrender self as a god to the will of God, as abiding in Him by reason of a spiritual rebirth.
Then and only then can we become sons of God as sons of man.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water (son of man) and of the Spirit, (son of God) he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
There can not exist a (prior)spirit outside the body without first inhabiting the flesh, as a living soul, and then having a rebirth to now having a spirit that will not die.
Whatever accounts other than what is in the bible, either outside the realm of reality, as in the spirit world, and or things, myths and tales as made up by mankind, are credited as sound doctrine.
Sound doctrine is what is stated as truth in the bible as a whole, and that is that "For God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son, so that through Him the world may be saved."
If it were not a work of God, then surely, a work of mankind can be only in a state of futility!
Surrender your will as a god to the will of God that in Him is life and not death!
quote=lookMankind is born with a conscience (Adam), as it is the life of the body (Eve)
together a living soul.
Yet as a living soul a god.
Drifter= As a living soul 'God-like', God as a physical consciousness (but limited by the physicality/relativity of being in this world but not of it), that limitation of consciousness must be transcended. Then A God-like-man at best, manifesting the altruistic attribute's man has attributed to his divinely inspired idea of what God is (a supposition at best suggesting the positive over the negative-or light as opposed to darkness aka ignorance, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_virtues again the duality of God, and therefore a projection on God by man, what is being suggested is there is an attainable state by man, the state of non-duality, that can transpire before the actual demise of the mind-body organism. Man can awaken to his natural state, iow, before death just as Jesus did.
Look=A god can not co-exist with God, so one has to go.
Drifter= EWgo cannot co-exist with God, man cannot have two masters.
Look= The lost one is the god, mankind.
Drifter= The lost 'god' is the impostor ego that has unrightfully assumed Gods place in this world, by our ignorance and delusion.
Drifter= To worship/love this world, is to place oneself at enmity/odds with God.
Look= Did not loose its conscience, but lost its soul, as in not having the ability to life after death, but chained to, trapped in a world created to test the soul.
Drifter= Did not lose it conscience?, some people adamately profess they have no Conscience. This is pure unadulterated ego.
Conscience, aka Spirit knows no death, is enfleshed in this mind-body organism until the organism awakens to the truth, or dies, then limited and relative consnciousness is limited no more so it naturally returns to its natural state of Universality and Oneness, aka Cosmic Consciousness, aka God or Brahman.
The 'soul' is the thinking mechanism.
Look= By necessity, the dead, yet living soul must have a rebirth, in order to gain excess to life from the dead.
Drifter= The dead is dead. The physical brain-body organism returns to the dust from whch it came by way of Pops semen and Moms ovaries, as a result of the food they ate and the DNA within that contains the autonomic nervous system and consciousness which comes into beiung at conception and therefore 'earthly' or first nature but un natural for spiritual developement without Conscience.
Look= That is what is the central point is about why Jesus came.
Drifter= You are going to have to get beyond the physical to ever see the spirit in yourself, just as Jesus did.
Look= "...can now finally"... agreed, but not before a rebirth, unless it is done at the point of death of the physical.
Drifter= 'The rebirth' is the death of the ego and the resurection of the Conscience, of the God-man/Lord, within. It happens inside a person, it is impersonal. Yet each must discover, unveil the teaching, secret, for themself. Jesus gave you himself as an example. "Flesh and blood shall not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven"; You have simply mis-interpreted what his message was based on what others who have missed it as well, have told you. Damn-it man; Go inside your own head (Garden of Eden) and experience the truth for yourself, stop taking others interpretations, even mine, and investigate the truth for your Self. Then you can speak with some authority about a subject that is very difficult to put inot words. Take my word for it. Lol
Look= Those who had not the privilege of knowing the Christ are among the dead not excluded by Jesus at His resurrection.
Drifter= I have the priveledge of knowing Christ personally, and I Am not dead, I understand the resurrection as I have explained it you, I died on the Cross of the ego with Jesus by my side and Christ appeared to me.
Look= As for "reality", it is no illusion, but real. You hurt, you cry, you love, you hate.
Drifter= You think there is a 'you' to suffer, and this 'you' suffers.
I tell you this 'you', that you think you are, is an Impostor.
Drifter= "Yea, though you saw me on the cross, suffering in death, it was not I but an impostor who had taken my place." ~Christ Jesus
Look= What is an illusion is to think to believe that we can ascend to a spiritual level in a reality state, and dismiss reality as just an illusion.
Drifter= I tell you now: "Verily, verily, What you think is real is unreal and what you think is unreal is real."
Look= Why then the contest?
Drifter= In any contest there is always winner and a loser.
Look= The contest, reality is what brings out the supposed good, or the supposed evil, in what is an apparent attempt at futility to reach a level of spiritual height, as to think to ascend to the place of God, without the help of God.
Drifter= I have never said as much, I call the God of my understanding my Conscience, my ever trustworthy parental Spirit, the greeks called it their genius, and celebrated it as such on their birthdays, it wasn't them, it was about the God of their understanding that they celebrated their "Birth-day."
Look= That notion, in itself is called enmity with God. Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Drifter= That notion in itself is csalled EGO. And mankind supposedly has 'free-will', stolen from Gods Will by the act of rationalization which gives the Ego its power over mankind
Look= Individuality, self, independent self as a god is enmity against God, and one must go.
The only possible way for self to become subject to the law of God and live, is to surrender self as a god to the will of God, as abiding in Him by reason of a spiritual rebirth.
Then and only then can we become sons of God as sons of man.
Drifter= We become Sons of Man, (notice the caps) a step above sons of man.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water (son of man) and of the Spirit, (son of God) he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
There can not exist a (prior)spirit outside the body without first inhabiting the flesh, as a living soul, and then having a rebirth to now having a spirit that will not die.
Drifter= The Soul is immortal.
Look= Whatever accounts other than what is in the bible, either outside the realm of reality, as in the spirit world, and or things, myths and tales as made up by mankind, are credited as sound doctrine.
Drifter= Then to what avail the prophets and messengers of God?
The Bible is composed of 66 books written originally in three different languages by some 30 different authours. I don't know what to make of your previous statement. God is not in the publishing business.
Look= Sound doctrine is what is stated as truth in the bible as a whole, and that is that "For God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son, so that through Him the world may be saved."
Drifter= Dogmatic Rhetoric unless you go beyond the superficial literal.
If it were not a work of God, then surely, a work of mankind can be only in a state of futility!
Surrender your will as a god to the will of God that in Him is life and not death!
Drifter= You need not 'preach'/work your work, on me. Its futile as you suggested above.
I wish you knew what you were talking about. It doesn't come across as such. More parroting isn't necessary to make a point. It doesn't do discussion favorably. Fundamental fanaticism and zealotry isn;t conducive to understanding but causes dismay and resentment among the intelligent, scholarly, and unemotionally minded among us.
Blessings, AJ[/quote]
Perhaps you might reread previous posts. You do have a tendency, imho, to mis-interpret truths, the spoken word.
Bless you AJ, Brother/Self
Namaste`
Drifter
ps "When the horse is dead, it is prudent to dismount."
Last edited by Ocean Drifter; 02-22-2010 at 04:05 PM..
Obviously, you are well versed in your point of view and nothing short of infallibility.
I have but one comment in reference to: "Drifter= The Soul is immortal."
You know that fer sure? And how do you know if you have no knowledge of a prior existence, or do you?
Life begins it's immortality at birth, not of the flesh but of the spirit of God in us, not of ourselves, but of God.
I don't necessarily have any problem with your view, it's just that I want to give a different view.
Although, we have many parallels, there still is a dinstict distinction between your views and mine, and that has to do with the deity of Jesus.
Though you speak of knowing Jesus "I have the privileged of knowing Christ personally", is not being dead, but alive in Christ.
You speak of your ego as dead on the cross with Jesus, but as an equal with Jesus, and not as a one receiving life as a result of the death of Jesus as the giver of life.
I fully understand the ego bit, the self thing, for it is the part of which I can only overcome only in Christ, and apart from Christ, I have no hope.
Blessings, AJ
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