As christians should we believe in a literal 6 days? (translate, POV, Jews)
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I keep hearing people on the thread say "it's this simple: either you believe all the Bible, or you don't...it's that simple! Genesis says there were 6 days, so therefore it was 6 days...it's just that simple". Well....no....I don't agree. It really is not that simple...
For example, what kind of days were those days of creation? Were they "24 hr" days, "1000year days", or something entirely different? How do you know?
Were all 6 of those days the same length? How do you know?
Was there a previous age on earth before the creation of man, where dinosaurs roamed the land? How do you know?
If so, how long was that age? How do you know?
Did the earth spin at a different speed in those days, changing how we measure time? How do you know? Was there a gap of time between some of the creation days? How do you know?
Did passage of time on earth, as man understands it, vary, due to the rapid movement of the earth through space? (in relation to the place where it was originally created) (one of Einsteins theories on time dilation) (which has since been proved to be true)
It goes on and on. What the Bible doesn't tell us about creation is just as important as what it does tell us. One thing it does not tell us is that the earth is 6000 years old....it's not in the Book anywhere. People are teaching something that just isn't in there...
For those of you who take everything in the Bible literally, and therefore "you either believe all of it, or you don't, it's that simple", I have a scripture for you.
The words of Jesus:
Matthew 5
29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Regarding these words of Jesus, He said it, therefore it must be true. Either you believe it all, every single word of it, or you don't, it's that simple! Right? Well...no...it's really not that simple. You may wish it were, but it's not. Some scripture is plainly written, and is easy to understand. Others are not, and need extensive study to understand the original meaning. I believe the Genesis account of creation is one of them.
For those who take all of the Bible literally:
The other day you had something in your eye, so you put in eye drops, or went to a doctor, instead of following Jesus' very specific instruction from the Book of Matthew? Why....you hypocrite! You knew that Jesus had said to pluck out your eye if it offended you, but you dis-obeyed? Why? I mean, you said you believed ALL of the Bible... exactly every word just exactly as it is written, that "it's just that simple". That either we believe it all, or we don't. But now here you obviously don't believe the words of Jesus at all? You say that's different? No, it's not! The Bible is 100% true, but the interpretation of what it says is quite often in error. Man is fallible, and quite often fails to understand something written in the Bible. What else would explain the 30,000+ different church denominations and beliefs? It's because we don't agree on everything....on the meaning of some scriptures. We pretty much agree on the basic stuff, but from that point on it is pretty much a free-for-all....no unity at all. We are so quick to judge anyone who doesn't believe exactly as we do....
To sum it all up: some here on this forum want others to believe the days of creation were 6 days (as God counts days), which somehow translates to 1000yrs of time per "day". (as we count time). So, therefore, the earth took literally 6000 years to create. (6 X 1000 = 6000 years) The OP basically wanted to know what we all thought about it. I replied with what I thought about it: I just don't believe that...I believe the earth is extremely ancient. (as in millions or billions of years) I don't believe that view clashes with the Bible (although I recognize that others believe and say it does). I don't care if some believe in a "young" earth, it's their right to believe as they wish, but please don't judge the rest of us who take a different view of the topic. Our salvation doesn't hinge on whether we believe, or don't believe, in the 6-day creation, and whether that translates into "6000 years". Please don't call those of us who don't believe exactly as you do "non-believers", "traitors", "not real Christians", "faithless", "don't believe the Bible", etc, etc, just because we believe differently than you do. That is judging your brothers and sisters in Christ, and it is wrong. Fair enough?
'you are a jew then not a christian' how does me taking that literally make me a Jew? God telling the Jews to work six days and rest on the 7th doesn't make me one. I take it literally in the sense that i don't see them working 6000 days and resting for 1000.
I keep hearing people on the thread say "it's this simple: either you believe all the Bible, or you don't...it's that simple! Genesis says there were 6 days, so therefore it was 6 days...it's just that simple". Well....no....I don't agree. It really is not that simple.................Regarding these words of Jesus, He said it, therefore it must be true. Either you believe it all, every single word of it, or you don't, it's that simple! Right? Well...no...it's really not that simple. You may wish it were, but it's not. Some scripture is plainly written, and is easy to understand. Others are not, and need extensive study to understand the original meaning. I believe the Genesis account of creation is one of them.
So I need to do extensive study of the Genesis creation to interpret that "day" actually means "day"?
Time dialation??? Look! Of course it is hard for you to believe but again what does the bible say? Does the bible mean what it says or doesn't it? So what parts of Genesis can you take literal Genesis 1-4, maybe chapter 5 also or do you take all Genesis not to be literal? where is the line drawn on what to take literal and what not to. How can you trust the bible if you don't know what to take literal? I mean did Jesus really die on the cross and rise from the dead or is that some symbolic representation of rebirth in the enlightenment of the thinking mind? Do you believe in the world wide flood? If you don't then where does it end as doctrine upon doctrine is falling one by one. Genesis means origins
Quote:
For those of you who take everything in the Bible literally, and therefore "you either believe all of it, or you don't, it's that simple", I have a scripture for you.
The words of Jesus:
Matthew 5 29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
(If I say, Budinak it is raining cats and dogs outside, would you literally think cats and dogs are falling from the sky? NO it's a figure of speech but something is definitely falling from the sky, it is literally raining)
Of course we should take these verses of warning literally from Jesus. Jesus was not advocating self-mutilation for this would not in fact cure lust/ sin which is not the hand that causes you to sin but your heart-sin is a problem of the heart. Cutting off your hand will not stop you from sinning. Jesus knew this.
Jesus meant what He said using a graphic hyperbole in demonstrating the seriousness about the sinfulness of sin and the consequences for it. Sin must be dealt with drasticatically because of its deadly affects. Furthermore it doesn't affect any doctrine like Genesis does
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 01-27-2010 at 07:19 AM..
The Bible also says we are to work six days and rest on the 7th. I AM TAKING THAT LITERALLY!!
And there is nothing wrong in you taking that literally, but do you literally keep it as God required it of His own, "namesake", people? -no, you cannot, for it had nothing whatever to do with "going to Church" on a certain day, but in ceasing all of one's own works, as a sign of the future entering into the New Man nature by second birth of Spirit into Christ's One Living Spirit. And the High Priest worked on the Sabbath, as the oracle of Christ in flesh [the high priest was "anointed" with the oil of Anointing/Messiah, and served in the office of Christ, as an oracle of the Person and work of Christ, who was to come -and is come.
Jesus the True High Priest did work for us to enter in to the true Sabbath Rest promised from the beginning, when Adam fell and began his "vain, profitless" labors.
The seventh day Sabbath is the oracle given to the sign nation to rehearse, and the blessing was for them, through Moses, to be His rehearsers of His oracle for all nations.
But Acts 15 states that the Holy Spirit agreed that I, as a Gentile born again believer in Jesus Christ, am not under Moses. Hebrews 4 and Matthew 11:28 show that I am truly entered into that Sabbath of promise, and I have ceased from my own vain labors for all eternity, which could never redeem me.
As a born again believer, the decalogue is written on my New Man heart of flesh. In other words: I have a new nature and am in the real Sabbath rest of His Peace, which sabbath, Israel, His own namesake people of His New Man name have not yet attained to -for all their keeping of the oracle of it.
And "the law was made for sinners", to show that all fall short of that requirement of God, in Adam, and only a born again in Christ believer can truly satisfy the righteousness of God, by being in Christ and Christ being in them.
So let me understand your viewpoint Fundie....
The Bible is to be taken literally except when YOU decide it isn't.
6 days means 6 days but the moon is a light doesn't mean that the moon is a light.
A global flood means a global flood but a sunrise is just from man's perspective, not literal.
When the Bible said the sun and moon stood still, it really meant the Earth stood still.
When Jesus says he will rise from the dead in 3 days he means it, but if he says to pluck out your own eye....he doesn't really mean it.
Your insistence on a literal interpretation only sometimes makes for very a inconsistent presentation. Do you not see that? No, I suspect it makes sense to you.
The original question of the thread...Do I believe in a literal 6 day creation.
I can believe it. I can also believe that it isn't literal. In the end I don't know and it doesn't matter.
I'm not willing to be a complete literalist because then I'd have to go over with yeshuasavedme--and you aren't even willing to go that far.
I don't put God in a box so I don't exclude any possibility that has God as our creator. It doesn't matter how God created the Earth and universe, it only matters that He did. It isn't any less impressive if God did it in 6 million years instead of 6 days...look around..it's amazing!! I don't spend a lot of time trying to figure it out. I sure don't go around telling others that they are wrong and the whole Bible falls apart if they don't believe in a literal 6 day creation....as long as we are coming from the same point of view that God is the creator, intentionally, purposefully. What is the point of arguing the details...you are only being divisive.
that's the beauty of GOD, he did all this(incest to build populations) and if you notice there was not any deformed children from it either..
And you must understand this verse in the Bible to get the gist of how God operates or you will forever be asking questions and be lost. the choice is yours...here you go:
Isaiah 55:8-9
""For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,"
declares the LORD.
9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts
GOD IS GREAT I TELL YOU!!!!
Well DUH!
That's the point I was trying to make with all the people running around claiming they have the exact right answer and subjectively selecting sections to be literal or non-literal about. When challenged on these points they don't admit that they are human and fallible...they hide behind the rightness of the bible and the implicit assumption that their *faith* makes them correct over another person with even a slightly different view.
I find that attitude of absolute correctness to violate the passage you just indicated above.
For example, genesis says "7 days". In another section it talks about 1000 years to a day but that could be looked at as a metaphor meaning that time to god is meaningless. But nooooooo....that wouldn't be "literal". But wait, Genesis says 7 days but some of you are turning this into 6,000 years which is NOT what Genesis said....it said 7 days. So pick one, be literal consistently or not.
So I say again, so what if the earth is billions of years old or thousands but I find it blasphemous to put forth your biblical interpretations as utterly correct under the guise of your fully knowing gods ways. (See again the scripture you just linked).
I'm imperfect, I don't for a second think I *know* everything and that all the mysteries of the bible are correctly understood by me. For those of you that think you have it all figured out...that's pretty convenient and you aren't following what the bible is saying literally above.
You tell me because if I didn't take you literal in what you just said then I have no clue what you are talking about? the monkey went where? oh wait...let me adjust it so now that I take what you just said literal,.......that's better, now that makes sense well sort of because it's a strawman........Wow did not realize in a literal translation that one cannot have figure of speech? so when pigs flew?......I am sure jesus did all these scientific impossibilities like walked on water, raised the dead, flew in the sky, materialized a quantity of bread and fish out of thin air.....oh don't forget controlling the weather too.
Parade around in your spiritual immaturity, knock yourself out, don't address the fact that doctrines are tied into Genesis. Genesis explains coming of the Messiah, why sin and evil allowed in the world, Why Jesus was the 2 Adam, why God's judgment, why people speak different languages, why the different ethnicities and the list goes on and on. I am sure science will answer all that.
LOL, Fundie's losing it.
This is always what happens with people like this.
I have never been able to understand why some people need to think they know it all, that they have all the answers...that's a pretty risky position to be in, especially when you are inconsistent and relying on your own understanding. But...this is how it always ends, I'm not surprised.
Kudos to yeshuasavedme--the only poster willing to go 'all in'.
Even though your views are extreme you have been respectful in your answers to posters and willing to take a consistent position.
ETA:The above quote is the original response posted by Fundamentalist. He has since edited his comments. I'm not sure why. LOL
I'm not willing to be a complete literalist because then I'd have to go over with yeshuasavedme--and you aren't even willing to go that far.
I don't put God in a box so I don't exclude any possibility that has God as our creator. It doesn't matter how God created the Earth and universe, it only matters that He did. It isn't any less impressive if God did it in 6 million years instead of 6 days...look around..it's amazing!! I don't spend a lot of time trying to figure it out. I sure don't go around telling others that they are wrong and the whole Bible falls apart if they don't believe in a literal 6 day creation....as long as we are coming from the same point of view that God is the creator, intentionally, purposefully. What is the point of arguing the details...you are only being divisive.
Well, if people could ever get to believing that God meant what He said the way He said it because what He did the way He did, in the time He did, were parables of what He was to do, the way He would do it, when He would do it -then conversation could get past "theology kindergarten level", and we could actually begin "theology 101", and advance on to understanding the parables in what He did the way He did when He did it because of what He would do when He would do it in the way He taught in His Oracles.
I keep hearing people on the thread say "it's this simple: either you believe all the Bible, or you don't...it's that simple! Genesis says there were 6 days, so therefore it was 6 days...it's just that simple". Well....no....I don't agree. It really is not that simple...
For example, what kind of days were those days of creation? Were they "24 hr" days, "1000year days", or something entirely different? How do you know?
Were all 6 of those days the same length? How do you know?
Was there a previous age on earth before the creation of man, where dinosaurs roamed the land? How do you know?
If so, how long was that age? How do you know?
Did the earth spin at a different speed in those days, changing how we measure time? How do you know? Was there a gap of time between some of the creation days? How do you know?
Did passage of time on earth, as man understands it, vary, due to the rapid movement of the earth through space? (in relation to the place where it was originally created) (one of Einsteins theories on time dilation) (which has since been proved to be true)
It goes on and on. What the Bible doesn't tell us about creation is just as important as what it does tell us. One thing it does not tell us is that the earth is 6000 years old....it's not in the Book anywhere. People are teaching something that just isn't in there...
For those of you who take everything in the Bible literally, and therefore "you either believe all of it, or you don't, it's that simple", I have a scripture for you.
The words of Jesus:
Matthew 5
29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Regarding these words of Jesus, He said it, therefore it must be true. Either you believe it all, every single word of it, or you don't, it's that simple! Right? Well...no...it's really not that simple. You may wish it were, but it's not. Some scripture is plainly written, and is easy to understand. Others are not, and need extensive study to understand the original meaning. I believe the Genesis account of creation is one of them.
For those who take all of the Bible literally:
The other day you had something in your eye, so you put in eye drops, or went to a doctor, instead of following Jesus' very specific instruction from the Book of Matthew? Why....you hypocrite! You knew that Jesus had said to pluck out your eye if it offended you, but you dis-obeyed? Why? I mean, you said you believed ALL of the Bible... exactly every word just exactly as it is written, that "it's just that simple". That either we believe it all, or we don't. But now here you obviously don't believe the words of Jesus at all? You say that's different? No, it's not! The Bible is 100% true, but the interpretation of what it says is quite often in error. Man is fallible, and quite often fails to understand something written in the Bible. What else would explain the 30,000+ different church denominations and beliefs? It's because we don't agree on everything....on the meaning of some scriptures. We pretty much agree on the basic stuff, but from that point on it is pretty much a free-for-all....no unity at all. We are so quick to judge anyone who doesn't believe exactly as we do....
To sum it all up: some here on this forum want others to believe the days of creation were 6 days (as God counts days), which somehow translates to 1000yrs of time per "day". (as we count time). So, therefore, the earth took literally 6000 years to create. (6 X 1000 = 6000 years) The OP basically wanted to know what we all thought about it. I replied with what I thought about it: I just don't believe that...I believe the earth is extremely ancient. (as in millions or billions of years) I don't believe that view clashes with the Bible (although I recognize that others believe and say it does). I don't care if some believe in a "young" earth, it's their right to believe as they wish, but please don't judge the rest of us who take a different view of the topic. Our salvation doesn't hinge on whether we believe, or don't believe, in the 6-day creation, and whether that translates into "6000 years". Please don't call those of us who don't believe exactly as you do "non-believers", "traitors", "not real Christians", "faithless", "don't believe the Bible", etc, etc, just because we believe differently than you do. That is judging your brothers and sisters in Christ, and it is wrong. Fair enough?
Bud
no replies to this?? yeshuasavedme and the other funny guy, what happened? lol
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