Percentage of people that will be saved (vain, Jews, God)
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Thanks. I got to that place some time ago, and when I dug in, I found the truth. It just not the truth which you 'figured out' by merging verses and taking things out of context.
Well, I can tell you it was different for me. I also dug in and found the truth, and it was universal salvation, and it wasn't by "merging verses and taking things out of context". It was by actually reading the bible myself and realizing all the contradictions that mainstream Christian (Arminian/Calvinist or otherwise) beliefs have.
When you got to that place where you wondered what the sense of people burning forever was, what answer did you find? Just accept it, God is good and some people burn forever?
When you got to that place where you wondered what the sense of people burning forever was, what answer did you find? Just accept it, God is good and some people burn forever?
So, if it doesn't "make sense", then you tweak it until it does?
For you to assume you, or any human, can ever fully understand God is an insult to God.
Sovereign God made the rules, and according to his own rules sins will be judged. You think he is going to break his own rules? Who is going to save God, if he violates his own rules? You?
It is impossible for him to break the rules, and the rules dictate that there will be punishment for sin. The Bible is full of examples of this. FULL OF THEM. Salvation is for those who believe ONLY. 1 Peter 3:18–20
And no, it does not have to make sense to you.
What you are preaching is very dangerous. You are telling people that there is no point in receiving Jesus now, because you'll be saved anyway. The day of salvation is NOW, not after you die. 2 Corinthians 6:2 2For he says, "In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you." I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation. Why is universalist belief so appealing to many? Because it tells people there is no rush to receive Christ. To them it doesn't matter what you believe. Sin now, and repent later. Easy, isn't it. Yes, it is easy, but not what the Bible teaches.
Universalism is the perfect weapon for Satan, and I think it will become the "One World Religion" as prophesied in the Bible. Oh, yes Satan is more than willing to use religion as long as it keeps people from giving their lives to Christ, and universalism fits perfectly. If Satan can get you to think you are saved, when you are not, then you belong to him. It also suits his purpose because it covers everyone: believing Christians, unbelieving Christians, Muslims, Hindus, buddhists, atheists etc.... no one has to pick and choose a religion, because everyone is 'saved'. There is no need to mention Jesus either, only "God". After all, every religion has a "God". How convenient.
But it compromises the Bible, because the Bible says that Christ is the only way, and there is no other way.
Matthew 7:13–14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Finn tell me this , why does many mean many to you in this scripture ?
Matthew 7:13–14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Yet in this scripture many means a few ?
19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
My concusion is , it's you tweaking the scriptures to support your few mentality
There's nothing you must do to be saved , but what really you mean is "Here's what you must do to be saved".
You are absolutely, totally helpless to save yourself, but what you really means is "you must make a wise decision in order to be saved".
That's a good attampt to put words in my mouth, but I never gave you my own instructions on what you must do to get saved, and nor did I ever say I can save muyself. I gave you the words of Christ, and if you disagree with them, then that is between you and Him.
So, you believe that "There's nothing you must do to be saved". That is the universalist doctrine in a nutshell.
According to the Bible there are things to do in order to get saved, and NONE OF THEM agree with what you just said:
1. Believe. John 3:18, Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son
2. Repent. Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish
3. Born again. John 3:3, "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
And this for the universlists. It talks about Jesus being the ONLY way. there is no universal "back door" salvation.
John 10:-9 "I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. 3The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." 6Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them. 7Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. 8All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture.
And finally, how could this situation ever happen if everyone was saved:
Matthew 7:21-23 Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
And finally, how could this situation ever happen if everyone was saved:
Matthew 7:21-23 Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Psalm 92: 6-7 "The senseless man does not know, fools do not understand, that though the wicked spring up like grass and all evildoers flourish, they will be forever destroyed."
fools do not understand.....though the wicked and all evildoers flourish.... they will be forever destroyed
No Finn speaking for myself i believe salvation begins and ends with him . He's the author and finisher of my faith , he chose me , he found me ,he gave me the faith to believe, he sought me , he opened my eyes , he through his goodness and kindness led me to repentence, he called me , he opened my ears to hear, he met me where i was , he loved me at my worst. I am pretty sure that those who believe in UR will agree this is the way.
This is the scriptual testimony of the believer
Here is Paul's testimony
But when God,(Thank God it says that) who set me apart from birtha and called me by his grace, was pleased 16to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles.
But when God , not but when I, how could one ever have steadfast unmoveable faith in but when I
If the apostle Paul gave is testimony today like the one he gave in Acts 22 i really don't think it would go down very well because he never mentioned the words faith and believe once while sharing it.He did speak about what God said and did though .
Also show me 1 scripture that says "i am saved because i believed" .
Can you also tell me why you think many means few in Romans 5 verse 19 ?
What you are preaching is very dangerous. You are telling people that there is no point in receiving Jesus now, because you'll be saved anyway.
You're right. When I first started discussing this with universalists on this board, I really regarded it as no more than an error--a serious one, and a blatant denial of the Word of God, but not dangerous necesarily. After discussing it here, though, and seeing what universalism really is all about, I have realized it is dangerous. It is another gospel. It holds forth the false idea that God has a "Plan B" for sinners who reject Christ and who refuse to repent during this life. According to UR, such people will be purified by fire, undergoing a corrective, remedial punishment. Thus, it holds forth a means of salvation in addition to what Christ's blood has accomplished.
It is another gospel, and on the authority of the Word of God, those who bring another gospel to the church are anathema.
What you are preaching is very dangerous. You are telling people that there is no point in receiving Jesus now, because you'll be saved anyway
I have never heard or read of any who believe in UR say or suggest such a thing.
When salvation comes to us there is repentence
Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost."
I'm certain Zacheus's testimony was Jesus came to my house , Jesus this and Jesus that , and not i this i that , i believed , i repented , i found Jesus.
When you trust God to save there is a point in receiving Jesus today
Last edited by pcamps; 02-08-2010 at 06:18 PM..
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