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As I said, the doctrines contained in the word of God must be transferred, (learned, metabolized) into the soul of the believer through study and inculcation. The Holy Spirit enables the believer to metabolize the doctrine, and then the Holy Spirit uses that doctrine in the soul of the believer to cause spiritual growth within the believer. I think I have already been over this with you on another thread. And it is not the subject of this thread. I merely replied to a poster's comments.
As we've discussed before, we simply stress differently the work of the Spirit - if I understand you correctly, you say the work of the Spirit is through the bible - and I'm saying the bible will contain a pattern, but it does not limit what God can communicate to people.
Furthermore, I believe that God does not need the bible to prepare the heart, feed the believer (a luxury that we enjoy, but many do not) and reveal spiritual things. Again, I believe God's written word is precious and true...
...but we can't pretend God is limited by it - or worse, that He is dead and we have a manuscript. God is very alive.
2 Timothy 2:19 says, ''The Lord knows those who are His...''
2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
2Ti 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
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The will of the Father concerning unbelievers is to believe in Jesus Christ for salvation.
John 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, ''Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves, and were filled. 27) ''Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man shall give to you, for on Him the Father, even God, has set His seal.''
John 6:28 They said therefore to Him, ''What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?'' 29) Jesus answered and said to them, ''This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.
Joh 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Joh 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Joh 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Joh 6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
Joh 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Joh 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Joh 6:34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Joh 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
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Many people however, profess to believe in Christ, but in reality, they do not. They may do all kinds of things in the name of the Lord, but they never enter into a saving relationship with Christ by simply believing in Him for salvation. To believe in Christ for salvation, means to cease entirely from your own efforts to earn salvation by your works of human righteousness (Isa. 64:6; Titus 3:5), and to depend entirely on the work of Christ on the Cross to save you. You must understand the issue regarding salvation and desire to enter into a saving relationship with Christ. Salvation is contingent upon placing your faith in Christ. All the works in the world will not save you. Indeed, the works of the unbeliever are what condemn Him as per Revelation 20:11-15.
Matthew 7:21 ''Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord', will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. 22) ''Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, 'Lord, did we not prophecy in Your name, and in Your name, cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles.'' 21) ''And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you ; Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.''
There are no second chances after death. Once you die, your opportunity to receive Christ as Savior ends. The following story told by Christ demonstrates this.
Luke 13:23 And someone said to Him, ''Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?'' And He said to them, 24) ''Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25) ''Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying 'Lord, open up to us!'' then He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know where you are from.' 26) ''Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets'; 27) and He will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where you are from; Depart from Me, all you evildoers.''
The meaning of what it is to be ordered by Christ to, ''Depart from Me'' is given in Matthew 25:41.
Matthew 25:41 ''Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;46 ) ''And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.''
Matthew 25:31-46 is about Tribulational Gentile unbelievers who survive to the end of the Tribulation, but will not be allowed to enter into the kingdom. They will be cast off the earth into the eternal fire. This is the baptism of fire which was prophesied by John the baptist in Matthew 3:12. ''And His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.''
Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Mat 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
The context of being cast into the "fire" is not having fruits that show repentance -- it is not about believing and continuing to sin or believing and following correct procedures i it is about believing and having fruit showing repentance
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To avoid being eternally separated from God, simply receive Jesus Christ as your personal Savior.
Acts 16:31 ''...Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved...''
John 3:16 ''For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Eternal salvation is that simple.
Mike your premise is based on the view that believing in Jesus only covers up our sin and we don't need to be righteous and repentant and having fruit that shows the repentance, that you can somehow believe and still be separated from the Spirit and will lose rewards but still be "saved"
What I see is the bible is talking to all of Gods chosen people - whether they were the Jews then or christians now --
God will judge all righteously -- those that he has chosen to seek him and witness for him will be judged on their works and the return that they have given Him
Those that are not chosen will be judged on their works righteously.
1Pe 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
As we've discussed before, we simply stress differently the work of the Spirit - if I understand you correctly, you say the work of the Spirit is through the bible - and I'm saying the bible will contain a pattern, but it does not limit what God can communicate to people.
Furthermore, I believe that God does not need the bible to prepare the heart, feed the believer (a luxury that we enjoy, but many do not) and reveal spiritual things. Again, I believe God's written word is precious and true...
...but we can't pretend God is limited by it - or worse, that He is dead and we have a manuscript. God is very alive.
So as not to take this thread off topic, I have answered this in a new thread called, 'God Communicates through His Written Word during the Church-Age.'
Now, I would like those who understand the point I am making, to let me know!!! I can't believe that it isn't obvious.
You obviously left out that verse because it doesn't support your view, the same way you always quote, "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved," but not only leave off the next verse, BUT truncate words in that verse, "and your household."
2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
2Ti 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
Joh 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Joh 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Joh 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Joh 6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
Joh 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Joh 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Joh 6:34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Joh 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Mat 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
The context of being cast into the "fire" is not having fruits that show repentance -- it is not about believing and continuing to sin or believing and following correct procedures i it is about believing and having fruit showing repentance
To the contrary!!!
Repentance has to do with changing your mind about Christ. It has to do with believing in Christ for salvation. After salvation, the believer is expected to produce fruit. It is not uncommon for prophecy to have both a near term and a far term view in the same prophecy. John the Baptist in John 3:1-12 covers the baptism of the Holy Spirit with regard to the church-age which began on the day of Pentecost. He also prophecises about the baptism of fire in which at the Second Advent of Christ, the Tribulational unbeliever is cast into the eternal fire. Baptism means to be identified with something. As the church-age believer is identified with the Holy Spirit, the unbeliever is identified with the eternal fire.
As I said, Matthew 3:12 is the prophecy of the wheat (believer) and the chaf (unbeliever) being separated at the second advent of Christ at the end of the Tribulation as described in Matthew 25:31-46. It is the baptism of fire in which the believers (the sheep, the wheat) and the unbelievers (the goats, the chaf) are separated and the goats/chaf are cast into the eternal fire, while the sheep/wheat go into the Millennial kingdom.
The Jews thought that their physical relation to Abraham was enough to save them (Matt 3:9). But not all Israel is Israel. Only a saved Jew (a Jew who had believed in Christ) was a part of Israel.
Being cast into fire means exactly that.
Matthew 3:12 ...but he will burn up the chaf with unquenchable fire.
Matthew 25:41 ''Then He will also say to those on His left,'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and hs angels.
I have just quickly pulled four different resources off the internet which explain as I have done that the baptism of fire refers to the judgment of Tribulational unbelievers at the return of Christ. And that this judgment is the casting of those unbelievers into the eternal fire. I suggest that these resources be read. More research is easily done.
I don't make this stuff up people. I know what I am talking about. This is fundamental theology. You can accept it or reject it. It's your choice.
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Mike your premise is based on the view that believing in Jesus only covers up our sin and we don't need to be righteous and repentant and having fruit that shows the repentance, that you can somehow believe and still be separated from the Spirit and will lose rewards but still be "saved"
What I see is the bible is talking to all of Gods chosen people - whether they were the Jews then or christians now --
God will judge all righteously -- those that he has chosen to seek him and witness for him will be judged on their works and the return that they have given Him
Those that are not chosen will be judged on their works righteously.
1Pe 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
You have no idea what my premise is. First of all, the work of Christ didn't cover sin, it removed it as far as the east is from the west. Psalms 103:12.
Never have I said that the believer doesn't have to be concerned with his spiritual life. After salvation, the believer is commanded to grow spiritually. He does so by learning and applying Bible doctrine to the circumstances of his life. If he fails to grow spiritually, then he loses eternal rewards.
The believer is positionally sanctified, which means he has a perfect standing before God. But he needs to grow spiritually, which has to do with experiential sanctification.
And never have I said that the believer can be separated from the Holy Spirit. The indwelling of the Spirit is a separate and distinct ministry from the filling of the Spirit. The indwelling of the Spirit is permanent. The filling of the Spirit is temporary and can be lost. That is why the believer is commanded to be filled with the Spirit. Eph 5:18 The filling of the Holy Spirit is restored through the principle of 1 John 1:9. The believer simply names the sin to God and is restored to fellowship.
Doctrine of Rebound (http://jrcyouth.com/love1.htm - broken link)
And never have I said that the believer can be separated from the Holy Spirit. The indwelling of the Spirit is a separate and distinct ministry from the filling of the Spirit. The indwelling of the Spirit is permanent. The filling of the Spirit is temporary and can be lost. That is why the believer is commanded to be filled with the Spirit. Eph 5:18 The filling of the Holy Spirit is restored through the principle of 1 John 1:9. The believer simply names the sin to God and is restored to fellowship.
Doctrine of Rebound (http://jrcyouth.com/love1.htm - broken link)
OK I misunderstood what you were saying I guess
Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
And I guess being filled with the Spirit would show these characteristics
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
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