Cincinnati vs Cleveland vs indianapolis vs louisville (Hamilton, Marion: taxation, restaurants)
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Indy has a very vibrant downtown that is busy all the time and it has gained over 40000 people downtown in the last 6 years.
Sorry, but this is a lie. Indy has a boring downtown that is comprised solely of a boring corporate mall and ringed by a few boring corporate restaurants. Nobody goes down there unless they have to, and Indy's City Market is dying, partially being torn down, while Findlay is vibrant and dynamic.
Cincy's downtown is far more authentic and engaging than anything Indy has made. Cincy also benefits from having its downtown sit on two sides of a major river.
No comparison. Cincy's downtown beat Indy's, and no development occurs in downtown Indy that isn't massively subsidized by the taxpayers. Indy's downtown is simply not economically viable. Plus, there's a 10% restaurant tax in downtown Indy to pay for the Colts.
Indy's downtown has not "gained over 40000 people downtown in the last 6 years," unless you're an Enron accountant and you have a generous description of "downtown." They slapped some townhomes in downtown, because Indy's commercial activity is so weak that no business wanted the land, but only a few hundred live in those. Center Township is shedding population, and almost nobody lives downtown, so I think you're using an Indianapolis Downtown Inc. press release without verification.
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Originally Posted by unusualfire
Wait Indy gained 40,000 residences in 6 years?? Impossible. They would have an Vancouver type skyline.
Thank you. It's bull.
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Originally Posted by ckzona
restorationconsultant. Im pretty sure Cincy has alot more development downtown than Indi.
By far. Just the Kentucky side of Cincy's downtown is better and richer than anything Indy has.
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Originally Posted by austiNati
Indy's culture is also HEAVILY sports influenced and they have become the amature sports capital of the Midwest,
Indy hasn't said this, in years. They gave this name to themselves when they had the Pan Am games back in the 80's, and the Colts were horrible. At that time, Indy was trying to get on the sports map. Now, they're tearing down the Pan Am facilities, and the Colts are decent. They built new stadia for the Colts and the Pacers, and IMS hosts IndyCar, NASCAR, MotoGP, while IRP hosts NHRA and a Busch race. Everyone here now has enough ego to try to throw their weight around as as a pro sports city. Indy has a huge inferiority complex, so having a Super Bowl allows them to wave a pro accomplishment in Chicago's face. As Chicago isn't going to be impressed by a city being the host to an amateur event, Indy isn't looking to go backwards. Indy is only looking for another Super Bowl to wave around, not another amateur event. Indy likes NCAA "amateur" events, such as the Final Four, but so does everywhere. These are really just pro events with unpaid players.
Indy is quietly letting that "amateur" tag drop.
Last edited by smoking357; 09-03-2010 at 05:32 AM..
Cincy is far more liberal than Indy. Cincy has a diverse population, with people coming from all over the world, while Indy has a narrow range of immigrants.
Parts of Cincy have a genuinely urban feel, completely absent everywhere in Indy.
There is no way white bread Indy with a homogeneous population could support Jungle Jim's. Look at your fellow shoppers in J.J. You don't see that in Indy.
Cincy is far more liberal than Indy. Cincy has a diverse population, with people coming from all over the world, while Indy has a narrow range of immigrants.
Parts of Cincy have a genuinely urban feel, completely absent everywhere in Indy.
There is no way white bread Indy with a homogeneous population could support Jungle Jim's. Look at your fellow shoppers in J.J. You don't see that in Indy.
I wasn't talking about diversity, hater (although to call Indy "white bread" is a bit of a misnomer given that the black population in Indy is twice the national average). I was referring to the notion that Indy is conservative relative to Cincy. Think Maplethorpe and Larry Flynt.
Unbunch your panties. I'm not hating on Cincinnati. Love the town, actually. Native Buckeye here, and spent part of my youth in Cincy. But to insinuate that Indy is a more conservative town than Cincy -- socially and politically -- is ludicrous.
As for the downtowns, whenever the Reds or Bengals aren't playing on the weekend, you can shoot a cannon down most downtown streets and not hit a soul. Certainly there's been some nice development on the Kentucky side, but we're talking downtown Cincinnati. The Banks will help. Downtown Cincinnati is beautiful, but it's just not lively.
I'm only basing this on comments by restorationconsultant, but he states that Cincy has had to offer big tax abatements to encourage people to move back into central city neighborhoods. Indy doesn't have to do that, so something must be working here.
Last edited by grmasterb; 09-03-2010 at 06:01 AM..
I wasn't talking about diversity, hater (although to call Indy "white bread" is a bit of a misnomer given that the black population in Indy is twice the national average).
What does being "white bread" have to do with anyone's race? I don't appreciate the racial stereotypes and racism. We've come too far to see people like you try to bring racism back to the common discourse.
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Unbunch your panties. I'm not hating on Cincinnati. Love the town, actually. Native Buckeye here, and spent part of my youth in Cincy. But to insinuate that Indy is a more conservative town than Cincy -- socially and politically -- is ludicrous.
How so? If it's "ludicrous," it must be readily apparent. Show me, or back down from your outlandish claims. Indy is heavily conservative. The only part of Indy that isn't completely conservative is the city, itself, but in Indy, more people live outside of the city than in it.
Indy is Hancock, Morgan, Shelby, Hamilton, Hendricks, Johnson and Marion Counties. Republicans control every one of these counties. Marion (Indy), the Dems best chance, has a Republican Mayor and Republican supermajority in the City-County Council. A couple years ago, gay marriage bans were discussed in the Indy Council.
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As for the downtowns, whenever the Reds or Bengals aren't playing on the weekend, you can shoot a cannon down most downtown streets and not hit a soul.
Ditto Indy. Nobody is down there. They get a few conventioneers from out of town, but the locals don't have much use for downtown. Indy's downtown has seen no construction in the last 20 years that wasn't subsidized. It's a massive shift of property away from everyone in the city to a few downtown hotels. Indy's downtown is a failed experiment in public expenditures in private ventures that has never achieved economic self sufficiency.
Certainly there's been some nice development on the Kentucky side, but we're talking downtown Cincinnati.
Right. The Kentucky side of downtown Cincy. It doesn't cease to be downtown because it's in another state. Lots of cities are bisected by rivers.
Do you actually think a state line creates a border of an organic concept? That's funny.
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The Banks will help. Downtown Cincinnati is beautiful, but it's just not lively.
Neither is Indy, except Indy's isn't beautiful.
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I'm only basing this on comments by restorationconsultant, but he states that Cincy has had to offer big tax abatements to encourage people to move back into central city neighborhoods. Indy doesn't have to do that, so something must be working here.
Indy has no inner city redevelopment, and they don't seem to want any. Fountain Square, the Near East Side, the Near Northside, Haughville are all either underperforming or outright dumps. The city of Indy is in decline. Indy isn't doing that badly, but increasingly Indy has little to do with anything inside the city limits.
Close to downtown Indy are some very sketchy neighborhoods that will never "come back." Cincy is actually cleaning up its urban core and putting in streetcars, while Indy people hate public transportation and are trying to kill IndyGo.
Indy exists in the suburbs, and Carmel is now the center of the metro area. Nobody in Indy goes downtown unless they have to.
Further, what, really, does a downtown have to do with a city? It seems like where governments put their money when they run out of imagination. Why does a city even need a downtown? They're often just relics of the horse-and-buggy days.
What does being "white bread" have to do with anyone's race? I don't appreciate the racial stereotypes and racism. We've come too far to see people like you try to bring racism back to the common discourse.
How so? If it's "ludicrous," it must be readily apparent. Show me, or back down from your outlandish claims. Indy is heavily conservative. The only part of Indy that isn't completely conservative is the city, itself, but in Indy, more people live outside of the city than in it.
Indy is Hancock, Morgan, Shelby, Hamilton, Hendricks, Johnson and Marion Counties. Republicans control every one of these counties. Marion (Indy), the Dems best chance, has a Republican Mayor and Republican supermajority in the City-County Council. A couple years ago, gay marriage bans were discussed in the Indy Council.
Ditto Indy. Nobody is down there. They get a few conventioneers from out of town, but the locals don't have much use for downtown. Indy's downtown has seen no construction in the last 20 years that wasn't subsidized. It's a massive shift of property away from everyone in the city to a few downtown hotels. Indy's downtown is a failed experiment in public expenditures in private ventures that has never achieved economic self sufficiency.
Right. The Kentucky side of downtown Cincy. It doesn't cease to be downtown because it's in another state. Lots of cities are bisected by rivers.
Do you actually think a state line creates a border of an organic concept? That's funny.
Neither is Indy, except Indy's isn't beautiful.
Indy has no inner city redevelopment, and they don't seem to want any. Fountain Square, the Near East Side, the Near Northside, Haughville are all either underperforming or outright dumps. The city of Indy is in decline. Indy isn't doing that badly, but increasingly Indy has little to do with anything inside the city limits.
Close to downtown Indy are some very sketchy neighborhoods that will never "come back." Cincy is actually cleaning up its urban core and putting in streetcars, while Indy people hate public transportation and are trying to kill IndyGo.
Indy exists in the suburbs, and Carmel is now the center of the metro area. Nobody in Indy goes downtown unless they have to.
Further, what, really, does a downtown have to do with a city? It seems like where governments put their money when they run out of imagination. Why does a city even need a downtown? They're often just relics of the horse-and-buggy days.
When someone can't even distinguish between downtown Cincinnati, Covington and Newport, then there's no use in even trying to argue against the rest of your ignorant drivel. Just best to ignore the troll.
I don't know about the Cleveland area's form of government, but worth noting as a distinction is the fact that the Cincinnati and Louisville metro areas are a patchwork of about a zillion different jurisdictions, leading to inevitable conflict, inefficiency and waste. Indianapolis has a merged urban county government.
I don't know about the Cleveland area's form of government, but worth noting as a distinction is the fact that the Cincinnati and Louisville metro areas are a patchwork of about a zillion different jurisdictions, leading to inevitable conflict, inefficiency and waste. Indianapolis has a merged urban county government.
Louisville consolidated its city and county governments in 2003.
Seems to me to be a good idea for a consolidated government, especially when the city is in one county. But I strongly doubt whether an agreement could be made to consolidate Cincinnati and Hamilton Co., just too many turf wars going on. But if it happened I could see a lot of good coming out of it.
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