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Sure, I guess it is more a matter of semantics in my head then anything. I know how CSAs are formed so that isn't up for debate, and Columbus is in Indy's, and Farmington is in St. Louis's. I guess I just prefer the term separate commuter city as it fits better to CSAs for me, whereas suburbs I always count just in the MSA (I know the literal definition of a suburb works for either though). Since you brought up St. Louis and Farmington, when I used to live in St. Louis I can't imagine a single person thinking of Farmington as a suburb of St. Louis. Do people share this in Indy? When I look at Columbus on a map it would be about halfway to Cincy if it was on 74 instead of 65.
Farmington is St. Francois so it's actually STL MSA, CSA adds what, one county with like 12 people . My point if not saying it directly was that for someone to say Columbus being considered an Indianapolis suburb a stretch, may not be entirely accurate when comparing suburbs that are further in distance away from their core cities. Case in point, Columbus is Indianapolis CSA yet Brown County is Indianapolis MSA. Both are south and Brown County is actually a little bit further south than Columbus and actually takes longer to get to and associate with Bloomington next door moreso than they ever would Indianapolis outside of touristy stuff. The other county, Putnam is 50 miles west of the city while Madison (a donut county) isn't even part of Indy MSA since it request not to be a part of the Indianapolis Metro. So you have a suburb in Anderson not part of the Indianapolis Metro and it is a suburb.
Farmington is St. Francois so it's actually STL MSA, CSA adds what, one county with like 12 people . My point if not saying it directly was that for someone to say Columbus being considered an Indianapolis suburb a stretch, may not be entirely accurate when comparing suburbs that are further in distance away from their core cities. Case in point, Columbus is Indianapolis CSA yet Brown County is Indianapolis MSA. Both are south and Brown County is actually a little bit further south than Columbus and actually takes longer to get to and associate with Bloomington next door moreso than they ever would Indianapolis outside of touristy stuff. The other county, Putnam is 50 miles west of the city while Madison (a donut county) isn't even part of Indy MSA since it request not to be a part of the Indianapolis Metro. So you have a suburb in Anderson not part of the Indianapolis Metro and it is a suburb.
Farmington is St. Francois, which is not in the STL MSA. CSA adds two counties, St. Francois and Washington. I agree with your point though, it is just not how I traditionally think of a suburb, but it of course doesn't mean they are not closely linked.
Farmington is St. Francois, which is not in the STL MSA. CSA adds two counties, St. Francois and Washington. I agree with your point though, it is just not how I traditionally think of a suburb, but it of course doesn't mean they are not closely linked.
You are indeed correct. My mistake, when looking up at Wiki for GSL just looked at the counties it had Farmington in with GSL but stipulated CSA at the very top of the page.
Indy's downtown is better than Columbus's no point in arguing it.
Now if you want to argue quality of neighborhoods outside downtown well thats a different story............
Indy should pass Cincy in metro population by 2020
No it won't. Columbus is much closer to Cincinnati's metro population than Indianapolis and the difference in the growth rates between Indy and Columbus is not significant. I've done the numbers before for Columbus vs Cincinnati and really couldn't realistically find any way that Columbus will match or pass Cincinnati by 2020 even though it's already growing more than 2x faster. So how could Indy, which is further behind than Columbus, pass them both in 8 years? That's pure fantasy.
Geez calm down people, it's only Indiana and Ohio. One notable item is the growth of Indianapolis' black population, which grew 20% in the last decade: http://www.urbaninsite.com/?p=14157
One of the few cities which has bucked the Southern Migration of the 2000s...
Columbus was another, which saw its black population rise 24.7% 2000-2010.
No it won't. Columbus is much closer to Cincinnati's metro population than Indianapolis and the growth rates between Indy and Columbus are not significant. I've done the numbers before for Columbus vs Cincinnati and really couldn't realistically find any way that Columbus will match or pass Cincinnati by 2020 even though it's already growing more than 2x faster. So how could Indy, which is further behind than Columbus, pass them both in 8 years? That's pure fantasy.
On paper CBus has the larger area (of course this is dependent on factors that might be specific for CBus we're not aware of). Reality wise, Madison County (Anderson) isn't part of Indy MSA because they requested not to be even though Madison is a donut County (Indy MSA = Marion + 8 donut counties) now minus 1 which would put Indy MSA at 1.9 mil as Anderson is a suburb of Indianapolis. But since the feds granted it and they got it, it is what OMB says it is.
On paper CBus has the larger area (of course this is dependent on factors that might be specific for CBus we're not aware of). Reality wise, Madison County (Anderson) isn't part of Indy MSA because they requested not to be even though Madison is a donut County (Indy MSA = Marion + 8 donut counties) now minus 1 which would put Indy MSA at 1.9 mil as Anderson is a suburb of Indianapolis. But since the feds granted it and they got it, it is what OMB says it is.
If it's not part of the MSA, it's not part of the MSA. I thought the discussion was on growth, anyway, not on the potential, or wishing, of adding counties to the MSA to get the totals you want.
And even at 1.9 million, that would still be behind Cincinnati and maybe 50,000 above Columbus.
If it's not part of the MSA, it's not part of the MSA. I thought the discussion was on growth, anyway, not on the potential, or wishing, of adding counties to the MSA to get the totals you want.
And even at 1.9 million, that would still be behind Cincinnati and maybe 50,000 above Columbus.
Definitely, not saying it would catch Cincy. The area would have to take in far more than it probably would being a Midwest city in order to overtake it unless OMB re-arranges everything.
On the point of wishful thinking, no, not wishful at all. Madison is a donut county that specifically requested to OMB to not be part of the Indianapolis MSA. It is vastly different than the Cincy threads trying to combine Cincy and Dayton. That you would have a valid point as that is wishful thinking even though each areas burbs bump up against each other.
The difference herein lies direct Indianapolis suburbs not counted towards the Indianapolis Metropolitan Area not due to commuting patterns but the personal preference of one county to do it on its own and to try and not be in the shadow of its core city. That is very much different than the norm and at very least should have an asterisk next to it.
As far as growth (which I wasn't responding to that portion between you and Broad), the two cities will grow similar all things being equal. Indy might edge CBus one year and CBus edge Indy the next. They are that close. Barring a huge job loss or massive job gain somewhere down the line, don't expect the two to be vastly different in growth. So that I agree with
Sure, I guess it is more a matter of semantics in my head then anything. I know how CSAs are formed so that isn't up for debate, and Columbus is in Indy's, and Farmington is in St. Louis's. I guess I just prefer the term separate commuter city as it fits better to CSAs for me, whereas suburbs I always count just in the MSA (I know the literal definition of a suburb works for either though). Since you brought up St. Louis and Farmington, when I used to live in St. Louis I can't imagine a single person thinking of Farmington as a suburb of St. Louis. Do people share this in Indy? When I look at Columbus on a map it would be about halfway to Cincy if it was on 74 instead of 65.
Yeah. No one in Indy that I've ever met would describe Columbus as a suburb. As far as the South Side goes, I wouldn't even consider Franklin a suburb. In contrast, the definition of suburb is less agreeable on the North Side. Some people describe places like Anderson and Lebanon as suburbs. Personally, I think the furthest area outside of Indianapolis that is suburban is Noblesville. There is an argument to be made for Pendleton, though.
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. My point if not saying it directly was that for someone to say Columbus being considered an Indianapolis suburb a stretch, may not be entirely accurate when comparing suburbs that are further in distance away from their core cities. Case in point, Columbus is Indianapolis CSA yet Brown County is Indianapolis MSA. Both are south and Brown County is actually a little bit further south than Columbus and actually takes longer to get to and associate with Bloomington next door moreso than they ever would Indianapolis outside of touristy stuff. The other county, Putnam is 50 miles west of the city while Madison (a donut county) isn't even part of Indy MSA since it request not to be a part of the Indianapolis Metro. So you have a suburb in Anderson not part of the Indianapolis Metro and it is a suburb.