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Like kcmo, I'm a native Kansas Citian who transplanted to the East Coast — kcmo's lived in this part of the country for 12 years, I've lived in it for 46.
I made the reverse journey from ChuckG2008: I now live in Philadelphia, in a neighborhood called Germantown in the northwest part of the city. And you're spot on, ChuckG2008, about the parallels between Overland Park and King of Prussia.
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Originally Posted by wunder_waffle
When I first visited (Eastern) Kansas, I was surprised to find the natural topography much less boring than say Illinois or Iowa. The flint hills are an interesting region as well as the far eastern part of the state near the University of Kansas. I was expecting a flat barren landscape and instead found lakes and forests and hills. The major cities are similar in look and feel to Denver and other western cities with relatively large blocks and wide roads. I would even say that Kansas City is almost on par with Denver, but for some reason Denver gets a lot of great press.
Missouri is what I would call Appalachia-lite in its natural environment (and sometimes even its culture). And I don't mean that in a derogatory way.
St. Louis, in particular, reminds me more of a Cincinnati or other semi-eastern feeling city with a radial organized city fabric that even though it too is sprawling, has a denser more romantic urbanity and a housing stock unique to itself. Personally, I find the city's look fascinating, and wonder if it will ever again reach its former glory. I'm curious as to how new infill development would either enhance or detract from the city's architectural heritage.
St. Louis and Cincinnati both sit on what I'd call the edge of the Upper South (a region that also includes much of southern Illinois as well as southeast Missouri). I don't hear Southern or Appalachian accents in St. Louis as much as I did in Kansas City.
I refer to St. Louis as "the last great city of the East" and Kansas City as "the first great city of the West."
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Originally Posted by thefallensrvnge
From The American Midwest: An Interpretative Encyclopedia:
"In 1922, William Allen White wrote: "Kansas is the Mother Shipton, the Madame Thebes, the Witch of Endor, and the low barometer of the nation. When anything is going to happen in this country, it happen first in Kansas. Abolition, Prohibition, Populism,… the exit of the roller towel…these things came popping out of Kansas like bats out of hell."
Although our popular culture image might make people scoff at White's grandiose claim, our historical reality makes Kansas one of few states- with Massachusetts, Virginia, Texas and California- emblematic of America. As historian Carl Becker wrote in 1910: "The Kansas spirit is the American spirit double distilled. It is a new grafted product of American individualism, American idealism, American intolerance. Kansas is America in microcosm."
I've often said that about Missouri. The Civil War split the state in two (literally: for one year, it had two state governments, one pro-Union and the other pro-Confederate).
And those living in the Kansas City area know about the battles of Westport and Lexington, part of the Civil War's western front. The Lafayette County Courthouse in Lexington has a cannonball from the battle embedded in one of the columns of its portico, and much of the territory on which the Battle of Westport was fought now comprises Kansas City's Country Club District, its swankiest residential district.
They also know about the fight over what kind of state Kansas would be (slave or free). Called "Bleeding Kansas," I and others have referred to this fight as "the dress rehearsal for the Civil War."
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Had I not come from there, I'd probably be inclined to think poorly of Kansas. It is just a very extreme place in terms of weather, politics, and history. Coincidentally, Kansas's state motto fits its mindset well: "A rough road leads to the stars". One of the most famous pieces of art in Kansas, Tragic Prelude: http://www.kshs.org/places/capitol/t...ic_prelude.jpg
As for Missouri, I have family there but I always think of Mark Twain, riverboats (The Steamboat Arabia), and Branson. Every time I smell fresh asphalt, I think of Branson... I think this is where its "white trash" image might come from. But it is not deserved.
The actual state motto is "To the stars through difficulties" (expressed in Latin: Ad astra per aspera).
My mother (born in Omaha, raised in Horton, Kan.; she's a Jayhawk, while my Dad was a Missourian from a family that had resided in the state since it was a territory) had a story about "how Kansas was really settled" that jibes with the motto:
"In the pioneer days, you didn't hear people say, 'We're going to Kansas to make our fortune!' No, they were headed to Oregon, or California, or Santa Fe.*
"Kansas was where the wagons broke down en route."
*All three trails originated in Independence, Mo. The town of Westport, about 10 miles southwest of Independence, was the last place to get outfitted for the trek west on the trails. When what became Kansas City was established in 1838, the settlement was known as "Westport Landing" because the natural rock outcropping on the Missouri's south bank made a convenient dock for unloading of supplied headed for Westport — it was much closer to the town than Independence was. Kansas City absorbed Westport in 1897.
The rock band Kansas used that John Stuart Curry mural of abolitionist John Brown (which can be viewed in the state Capitol in Topeka) as the cover of its debut album. It's interesting IMO that both Missouri and Kansas commissioned famous native-son artists to produce murals for their capitol buildings, which were built not that far apart (Kansas' opened in 1903, Missouri's in 1917; Missouri's native-son artist was Thomas Hart Benton of Kansas City, grandson (I think) of the U.S. Senator from Missouri who stood on Lewis and Clark Point in 1838 and predicted Kansas City's rise).
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Originally Posted by kcmo
Kansas City Missouri was established before Kansas was a state.
The city was named after the Kansa Indians.
It was originally called the Town of Kansa, then named the City of Kansas and then Kansas City (again, all before Kansas ever became a state).
As KCMO was becoming a large city, what is now KCK was called Wyandotte, Kansas.
Kansas City Kansas came about after a collection of small cities on the Kansas side (including the biggest of them all, Wyandotte) merged. One of those cities was called Kansas City, but it was very small industrial area.
This new merged city in Kansas chose the name Kansas City because they wanted to take on the name recognition of KCMO which was a booming urban city at the time.
So basically, Kansas City, MO came first. Kansas and Kansas City, Kansas came later.
As legal entities, definitely, but I think the prior poster's point was that the territory was already being referred to with the name of the "People of the South Wind" by the time Westport Landing was established, so there were actual grounds for giving it that name rather than, say. Wyandotte when it was formally organized.
BTW, one of the five Kansas municipalities that combined to form present-day KCK in 1886 was also named Kansas City; it was incorporated in 1872 (at that time, the Missouri city was called the City of Kansas; it would switch the word order in 1885). Because of the merger, that little burg in the West Bottoms got referred to as "Old Kansas City," thus adding to the local confusion.
One more BTW: Someone upthread said the Missouri River is the state line between Missouri and Kansas. That's true only down to the point where it makes a left turn right where the Kansas River flows into it; Kansas City, Mo., grew up on its south bank. That left turn marks the southernmost extent of the ice sheet that covered much of North America in the last Ice Age. South of that point, the state line is a surveyor's line, or, south of about 37th Street, a street you can cross.
I am. however, glad to see that some of the respondents have discovered that Kansas is not entirely flat and featureless. Some make the same mistake about Kansas City, whose downtown sits atop a bluff whose north side got excavated away and which is actually quite hilly. I'd say that much of Illinois and Indiana are flatter than northeast Kansas or the Flint Hills, and that those parts are as flat as western Kansas. And "boring" is not a word I'd use to describe either state.
Missouri's rural parts have drifted further right than Kansas' have; I couldn't imagine Missouri voters now electing a Democrat as Governor after getting fed up with the performance of the Republican who had held the office (Kansans did just that in 2018). I will be watching that abortion referendum with more than a little interest. Johnson County, Kansas' most populous, is generally Republican but center-right as opposed to far right. Wyandotte (KCK), which I call "a little bit of the Rust Belt on the prairie" mainly because of its more heavily industrial heritage and generally faded appearance, is solidly Democratic, and Douglas (home of Lawrence and the University of Kansas, it lies in between Kansas City and Topeka) usually votes Democratic as well, making the state less conservative than many seem to think it is.
Wyandotte (KCK), which I call "a little bit of the Rust Belt on the prairie"
That's an interesting nickname for KCK - when I first drove through downtown KCK, it immediately reminded me of Allentown in PA - the rolling hills and dense clusters of houses (in sharp contrast with Johnson County), the rail yards bustling with freight, the Latino corner stores and car lots, and the short highway on-ramps and off-ramps and rusty overpasses definitely weren't built for a Suburban sprawly environment.
Last edited by ChuckG2008; 07-29-2022 at 06:00 AM..
Kansas - Much more green and rolling in the eastern part than I had imagined. And affluent. It feels like clean and nice. Flint Hills are also pleasant. Most of the rest of Kansas fits the image of flat, dry, wide open prairie. But where most of the people live is greener and hillier and richer than you might expect.
Missouri - Kind of split image with two big cities and then a giant swathe of farmland and wooded hills in between. The drive through the middle of the state, through Columbia, feels clean, rolling, and idyllic. The drive south to Jeff City and Branson involves some serious green and forested hill country that most people don't get to see. I would be torn between an idyllic life in Columbia or maybe basking in one of those pristine, rich suburbs outside St. Louis. Or Ward Parkway in KC would be nice.
A lot has changed since I started this thread. Missouri has totally gone off on the deep end and become a far right state.
While Kansas is probably become more blue. While KS does not have a large urban city which are typically very blue, most people in KS live in urbanized areas. The largest metro area in KS by far is the KS side of KC. As MarketStEl said, Johnson County (largest county in the state) is suburban but center-right and voted for Obama I believe.
I honestly don't know what to think of Missouri anymore. Missouri has always been somewhat of a red state and even sometimes a swing state, but I never thought it would go a far right as it has. It's fully blown Trumpster country there now. Despite having two major metros in the state, it has a very large rural population which I would guess is a major reason. Either way, Missouri has lost its way.
Kansas hasn't elected a Democratic senator since the Depression and hasn't gone Dem for president since LBJ (they routinely pull in the 30s during elections). Missouri has gone redder to be sure over the last decade or so, but Kansas is still an exceptionally Republican state.
MO just has far more diversity, way more dense urban center and historical impact via STL, and pretty good food from STL and KC. MO has amazing lakes, the Ozarks and just a lot more to it. MO has little slices of each part of America in it.
Kansas is a neat state, has KU, and is fairly homogenous (geographically, culturally etc).
While Kansas is probably become more blue. While KS does not have a large urban city which are typically very blue, most people in KS live in urbanized areas. The largest metro area in KS by far is the KS side of KC. As MarketStEl said, Johnson County (largest county in the state) is suburban but center-right and voted for Obama I believe.
Johnson County, KS voted consistently Republican for president through 2016 (including McCain and Romney against Obama) but the margins dropped sharply with Trump as the nominee. In 2020 Biden carried the county by 8%, well above his winning national margin.
Johnson County is hardly representative of Kansas in general, but it is helping shift the state out of the most extreme tier of red states. The high educational attainment there is key for the county's realignment.
MO just has far more diversity, way more dense urban center and historical impact via STL, and pretty good food from STL and KC. MO has amazing lakes, the Ozarks and just a lot more to it. MO has little slices of each part of America in it.
Kansas is a neat state, has KU, and is fairly homogenous (geographically, culturally etc).
Both are neat states in their own way.
Missouri is actually about 4% more Non-Hispanic White than Kansas, based on 2021 estimates. While Missouri's Black percentage is higher, Kansas is far ahead for Hispanics, and also has a higher share of Native Americans, Asians, and mixed race persons.
Missouri certainly has some regional and urban vs. rural contrasts, but Kansas does as well, and given the vast divergence in precipitation patterns is more obviously a transitional state between East and West.
They are actually diverging more than most people would have guessed from ten years ago. Missouri has become more a of a national laughingstock with their continued idiotic selection of politicians that are extremely conservative and way out of touch with most areas of the country. Kansas has become less conservative over that time period due to the continued growth of population in the Kansas City metro area and Lawrence. Rural Kansas continues to see huge population declines and Wichita is irrelevant as the center of gravity in the state has permanently shifted to the Topeka to Kansas City corridor in my opinion.
Jerry Moran won with 62% and 70% of the vote his last two times out. There really is no world where Missouri is considered more conservative than Kansas. Even Johnson County is about 15 points more Republican than it’s counter Jackson County across the river.
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