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Far too much is being made about Missouri's politics here.
Springfield and the rural ares can be somewhat purple still, and would be more so, if a certain party hadn't abandoned concerns that matter to blue-collar workers rather than invent weird new social justice issues to obsess over or rehash old ones we thought were largely sorted out.
To dismiss Trump's popularity as a bunch of racist hicks caught up in a cult of personality is grossly misinterpreting why he is/was popular in Missouri... and elsewhere for that matter.
Dude was basically an old-school democrat, which probably garnered a few votes in the blue-collar suburbs of the cities.
A little introspection on the dems part would be in order if they ever want to win Missouri and places like it ever again.
As someone who's lived much of my life in and near the Ozarks, it's not surprising to me in the least that recreational marijuana would be okay with the locals. It's another issue that's not nearly as red/blue as people seem to think.
Perhaps it might as well be legal, but it's normalization seems like a sign of societal decline rather than progress.
Aside from one or two issues, Missouri's government is largely hands-off and non-intrusive compared to the other states I've lived in. Not a bad place to live at all. There are some isolated small towns I'd watch out for, but every state seems to have those.
I have to lol @ the theocracy accusations from people who don't live in SWMO.
Kansas has always struck me as being politically purple. Those early settlers from Massachusetts and those sent to offset that migration left their mark.
Again, it only seems red because of the leftward march of the dems on a national level rather than the perceived rightward shift of the populace of Kansas.
Both states are pretty good places to live. I'd go back to the Kansas City area in a heartbeat if life took me back in that direction someday. Wouldn't even care which side of the state line I landed on.
Far too much is being made about Missouri's politics here.
Springfield and the rural ares can be somewhat purple still, and would be more so, if a certain party hadn't abandoned concerns that matter to blue-collar workers rather than invent weird new social justice issues to obsess over or rehash old ones we thought were largely sorted out.
To dismiss Trump's popularity as a bunch of racist hicks caught up in a cult of personality is grossly misinterpreting why he is/was popular in Missouri... and elsewhere for that matter.
Dude was basically an old-school democrat, which probably garnered a few votes in the blue-collar suburbs of the cities.
A little introspection on the dems part would be in order if they ever want to win Missouri and places like it ever again.
As someone who's lived much of my life in and near the Ozarks, it's not surprising to me in the least that recreational marijuana would be okay with the locals. It's another issue that's not nearly as red/blue as people seem to think.
Perhaps it might as well be legal, but it's normalization seems like a sign of societal decline rather than progress.
Aside from one or two issues, Missouri's government is largely hands-off and non-intrusive compared to the other states I've lived in. Not a bad place to live at all. There are some isolated small towns I'd watch out for, but every state seems to have those.
I have to lol @ the theocracy accusations from people who don't live in SWMO.
Kansas has always struck me as being politically purple. Those early settlers from Massachusetts and those sent to offset that migration left their mark.
Again, it only seems red because of the leftward march of the dems on a national level rather than the perceived rightward shift of the populace of Kansas.
Both states are pretty good places to live. I'd go back to the Kansas City area in a heartbeat if life took me back in that direction someday. Wouldn't even care which side of the state line I landed on.
You know I'm a native Kansas Citian, right? I may never live there again, but since a trip back in 2006, I have concluded that I could live there very comfortably and enjoyably were I to move back. (However, the streetcar and Zero Fare buses notwithstanding, it remains a drive-everywhere place — the one aspect of life there I don't much care for.)
But who are "those people sent in to offset that migration" of New England abolitionists? The "border ruffians" who played hob with state constitutional elections during "Bleeding Kansas" usually returned to Missouri after doing their deeds. The settlers headed West to seek fortune in California, Oregon and New Mexico during this same time period ended up settling in Kansas (if they did) because, as my Mom put it, "Kansas was where the wagons broke down en route." (This explanation certainly jibes with Kansas' state motto.) And the one other "great migration" I'm aware of is that of the Exodusters, the freed slaves who, after emancipation, booked passages on riverboats headed up the Mississippi to St. Louis, lured by the promise of land waiting for them in Kansas. With the exception of the several hundred hardy souls who made it to northeast-central Kansas and founded towns like Nicodemus, most of these ended up in places like Quindaro in Wyandotte County, and their descendants in all likelhood help make that county the most reliably and solidly Democratic in the state.
Also, I'll allow that the Assemblies of God probably no more dominate Springfield than the Westboro Baptist Church cult dominates Topeka, but both outfits take a very dim view of people like me. And Kansas does much better than Missouri on legal protections and services for LGBTQ people — Missouri doesn't even have the basic protections against discrimination in housing, employment and public accommodations in place. I can't help but think that the influence of the Bible Belters doesn't have something to do with that.
I also actually agree with your point about what motivated many Trump supporters to support him. My former Phillymag colleague Holly Otterbein, who grew up around York in south-central Pennsylvania, went back there to speak with Trump supporters about what drew them to him. It was from that article that I came to refer to the areas where these people lived as "the Land of the Forgotten," and I'd also agree that the Democratic elites' (or at least Hillary Clinton's) dismissal of these people as "deplorables" did them a disservice. But one of my issues with the "conservative movement" in general is that it's way too tolerant of those who would like to put Black Americans back into the box we fought our way out of over the course of a century-plus (and the fight isn't completely over yet; though most of the substantive battles have been won, those white supremacists haven't given up on pushing things back, and on some fronts, they have been). Because they haven't been read out of polite conservative (or right-populist, to put Trumpism in its proper place) society, I have to be vigilant against any political party or organization that shows a willingness to let their views or similar carry the day.
I'm sure you know Missouri's history: much as "Bleeding Kansas" set the stage for the Civil War, the war istelf split the state in two in a way it did only one other (Maryland). Our relatively benign post-Civil War race policies (Blacks were never disenfranchised in Missouri the way they were in the Deep South) made acceptance of the Civil Rights Movement and its advances easier in the Show-Me State once they came, but that doesn't mean all Missourians accepted them without a fight, and many of those who didn't care for them engaged in quiet acts of resistance, like abandoning the big-city public school districts.
In terms of how well educated the two states' populations are, Kansas edges out Missouri, though the two are close: 35.1 percent of Kansans hold a bachelor's or higher degree, while 31.9 percent of Missourians do. Is this a big enough gap to explain the differences in political outcomes? Not from what I can tell. (It's also worth noting here that "purple" Pennsylvania is in "red" Kansas' neighborhood at 34 percent. All of these states have educational attainment below the national figure of 37.9 percent.)
I might call Kansas pink, however, because unlike Pennsylvania, it hasn't voted for a Democrat in a presidential election in many years, even when it's sent Democrats to the governor's office in Topeka.
Last edited by MarketStEl; 08-07-2022 at 02:55 PM..
There’s no doubt that Missouri (and most states), would vote in favor of same-sex marriage if a vote were taken today. Missouri is a weird case. Historically purple, shifted hard right in terms of elected officials, yet the state still largely votes more progressive on actual issues than its legislators would indicate. MO has voted in favor union rights, Medicaid expansion, medical marijuana (will also be the next state to legalize recreational later this year), and a host of other wedge issues that defy its perception as a political backwater. It’s very frustrating to live in one of the bluest voting jurisdictions in the country (St. Louis City) while under the thumb of some of the most repugnant anti-urban legislators in the nation.
You also forgot Missouri voters voted to increase the state minimum wage, when it was put into a referendum some years back in(I think) the 2010s. Yes there indeed is a disconnect between more conservative state lawmakers that try to propose certain things with state bills in Missouri, vs. what MO voters will approve with ballot initiatives.
Sub also made a good point a few posts back, that certain national Dems(including Hillary Clinton) have too often ignored rural voters in elections. Which in a way where Trump was better appealing to those voters, and Hillary(where honestly, I wish she hadn't made this now famous remark) made a speech where she stupidly called rural voters deplorables. I'm also convinced Biden did a better job(even if just slightly) appealing to rural voters, than Hillary did.
I'll have to look up if there are any state laws protecting LGBT residents, in Kansas. I thought Kansas was like Missouri in having few to no such laws(if any did exist), but what do I know?
I'll have to look up if there are any state laws protecting LGBT residents, in Kansas. I thought Kansas was like Missouri in having few to no such laws(if any did exist), but what do I know?
As I noted in the post above yours, Kansas does have the basic legal protections for LGBT citizens in place while Missouri doesn't.
The Human Rights Campaign's latest State Equality Index (2021) places Missouri in the bottom category (of four), "High Priority to Achieve Basic Equality." Kansas is in the next one up, "Building Equality." (Pennsylvania is one of three states [Utah(!) and Alaska are the others] in the category above that, "Solidifying Equality." The top category, "Working Toward Innovative Equality," includes all the states you might expect to find in the top rank: California, New York, Illinois, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Washington state, all of the states containing part of the DMV plus the District itself, and 15 others including Iowa and New Hampshire.)
Drilling down into the details, it's interesting to see that Kansas still has a sodomy law on the books but has laws banning discrimination in employment, housing, public accommodations and higher education on the books that include both sexual orientation and gender identity and a hate crimes law that includes sexual orientation as a protected category.
Missouri includes both sexual orientation and gender identity in its hate-crimes law, it allows same-sex coupled to adopt children, it includes both sexual orientation and gender identity as protected categories in its law banning discrimination in higher ed, and it prohibits discrimination in state employment based on sexual orientation. It does, however, have a law on the books that makes some aspect of HIV status a crime (I'm assuming passing the virus on to others).
Both statea have Religious Freedom Restoration Acts that allow religious exemptions to the prohibitions in other laws.
I'm a middle aged, CIS-gendered straight, white, hetero, upper middle class male who lives in Missouri and I don't LOL. Missouri is a Christian Taliban breeding ground.
As I noted in the post above yours, Kansas does have the basic legal protections for LGBT citizens in place while Missouri doesn't.
The Human Rights Campaign's latest State Equality Index (2021) places Missouri in the bottom category (of four), "High Priority to Achieve Basic Equality." Kansas is in the next one up, "Building Equality." (Pennsylvania is one of three states [Utah(!) and Alaska are the others] in the category above that, "Solidifying Equality." The top category, "Working Toward Innovative Equality," includes all the states you might expect to find in the top rank: California, New York, Illinois, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Washington state, all of the states containing part of the DMV plus the District itself, and 15 others including Iowa and New Hampshire.)
Drilling down into the details, it's interesting to see that Kansas still has a sodomy law on the books but has laws banning discrimination in employment, housing, public accommodations and higher education on the books that include both sexual orientation and gender identity and a hate crimes law that includes sexual orientation as a protected category.
Missouri includes both sexual orientation and gender identity in its hate-crimes law, it allows same-sex coupled to adopt children, it includes both sexual orientation and gender identity as protected categories in its law banning discrimination in higher ed, and it prohibits discrimination in state employment based on sexual orientation. It does, however, have a law on the books that makes some aspect of HIV status a crime (I'm assuming passing the virus on to others).
Both statea have Religious Freedom Restoration Acts that allow religious exemptions to the prohibitions in other laws.
I see. Kansas has more laws protecting LGBT, than I realized. Now I see what you mean, that Kansas is a tad ahead of Missouri in this regard.
I bet Kansas never quite got around, to repealing their sodomy law. Although law changes like this, sometimes don't occur right away.
Far too much is being made about Missouri's politics here.
Springfield and the rural ares can be somewhat purple still, and would be more so, if a certain party hadn't abandoned concerns that matter to blue-collar workers rather than invent weird new social justice issues to obsess over or rehash old ones we thought were largely sorted out.
To dismiss Trump's popularity as a bunch of racist hicks caught up in a cult of personality is grossly misinterpreting why he is/was popular in Missouri... and elsewhere for that matter.
Dude was basically an old-school democrat, which probably garnered a few votes in the blue-collar suburbs of the cities.
A little introspection on the dems part would be in order if they ever want to win Missouri and places like it ever again.
As someone who's lived much of my life in and near the Ozarks, it's not surprising to me in the least that recreational marijuana would be okay with the locals. It's another issue that's not nearly as red/blue as people seem to think.
Perhaps it might as well be legal, but it's normalization seems like a sign of societal decline rather than progress.
Aside from one or two issues, Missouri's government is largely hands-off and non-intrusive compared to the other states I've lived in. Not a bad place to live at all. There are some isolated small towns I'd watch out for, but every state seems to have those.
I have to lol @ the theocracy accusations from people who don't live in SWMO.
Kansas has always struck me as being politically purple. Those early settlers from Massachusetts and those sent to offset that migration left their mark.
Again, it only seems red because of the leftward march of the dems on a national level rather than the perceived rightward shift of the populace of Kansas.
Both states are pretty good places to live. I'd go back to the Kansas City area in a heartbeat if life took me back in that direction someday. Wouldn't even care which side of the state line I landed on.
I rather like Missouri and especially the way you portrayed it here. I also like the way you think! I love KC and I had the privilege of going to a Catholic college in Kansas City, if only for a year. Fell in love with the city while I was there especially the people I met and the food I ate!
If I were to move there it would either be my first choice, the Ozarks or KC… cool thread.
Missouri will continue to go in a backward direction, demographics don't tend to change very quickly anymore with fewer people moving in general. There are many other states becoming more regressive, so it isn't alone.
In terms of how well educated the two states' populations are, Kansas edges out Missouri, though the two are close: 35.1 percent of Kansans hold a bachelor's or higher degree, while 31.9 percent of Missourians do. Is this a big enough gap to explain the differences in political outcomes? Not from what I can tell. (It's also worth noting here that "purple" Pennsylvania is in "red" Kansas' neighborhood at 34 percent. All of these states have educational attainment below the national figure of 37.9 percent.)
The most recent ACS data from the 2016-2020 period has somewhat lower educational attainment figures for all locations than the numbers above. This is probably the "gold standard" for such data, as it has a larger sample size than other surveys. Kansas is slightly above the national average, and Missouri a little further below.
My guess is that there is a small influence on political outcomes, as Missouri has trended further right in recent years while Kansas has pulled back a little from the reddest cohort of states. Kansas and Utah are the only predominantly red states where the share with a bachelor's degree exceeds the national average.
Bachelor's degree or higher:
United States 32.9%
Kansas 33.9%
Missouri 29.9%
Pennsylvania 32.3%
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