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Naval Station Norfolk is situated in the Sewells Point area of the City of Norfolk, near the site of the battle of the Monitor and Merrimac (CSS Virginia), and is the largest naval complex in the world.
Being from the Midwest, I have always correlated the South with Texas, and assumed Houston was the premier city in the South.
I now understand Atlanta is because of its economy and geographical location. thanks, city-data.
Well, it's not quite that simple. The South is a huge region and has no one dominant city but rather four cities that are roughly on the same level: Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, and Miami. However, Houston, Dallas, and Miami are regarded as being within specific subregions in the South (Texas and Florida, respectively) which are located towards the edges of the larger region, and Miami's domestic influence really doesn't extend beyond Florida. Atlanta is more or less centrally located within the Southeast and has the widest regional sphere of influence; thus it is often considered the "capital" or most dominant city of the South(east).
Wikipedia is a secondary source. This is why I quoted a direct source, the Navy's official Naval Station Norfolk website.
The Navy's official website of Naval Air Weapons Station China Lake states:
NAWS China Lake is located in the Western Mojave Desert region of California, approximately 150 miles north of Los Angeles. The installation is the Navy's largest single landholding, representing 85 percent of the Navy’s land for RDAT&E use and 38 percent of the Navy’s land holdings worldwide. In total, its two ranges and main site cover more than 1.1 million acres, an area larger than the state of Rhode Island.
So the Navy officially says that Naval Station Norfolk is the world's largest naval complex. That's the official source to use.
Wikipedia is a secondary source. This is why I quoted a direct source, the Navy's official Naval Station Norfolk website.
The Navy's official website of Naval Air Weapons Station China Lake states:
NAWS China Lake is located in the Western Mojave Desert region of California, approximately 150 miles north of Los Angeles. The installation is the Navy's largest single landholding, representing 85 percent of the Navy’s land for RDAT&E use and 38 percent of the Navy’s land holdings worldwide. In total, its two ranges and main site cover more than 1.1 million acres, an area larger than the state of Rhode Island.
So the Navy officially says that Naval Station Norfolk is the world's largest naval complex. That's the official source to use.
Of course, you are correct, Mutiny. Fltonc will always argue for his opinion, especially when attempting to argue that Virginia is insignificant. No matter what information you give, he tries to refute it. I'm not sure how Richmond or Hampton Roads is any less significant than Raleigh or Greensboro, but he is pretty sure of it...
What confuses me about Virginia is the state has Hampton Roads and Richmond and both of their MSA's are over 1M, yet they are almost irrelevant to almost any contribution to the South and receive little national attention.
They aren't booming in population, with large job adding numbers, ect.
That's not so true. Richmond is home to six fortune 500s: Altria Group, Dominion Resources, Genworth Financial, CarMax Inc., Owens & Minor, MeadWestvaco. It's an extremely diversified economy that is stable. It's also, perhaps surprisingly so, the base of a lot of manufacturing and services.
That is to say, if you've ever smoked a cig, opened up a Trojan (condom), enjoyed Sabra hummus, have ever used a Mead pad or notebook, shopped at CarMax, travel on a 787 (with Rolls Royce engines), or gone on to a Tumblr page (Tumblr's only developers office, outside NY), you have 100% been touched by the Richmond region - all of these things are either manufactured or developed in Richmond.
Hampton Roads is home to the world's largest "naval station" in the Norfolk Naval Base, NATO Allied Command Transformation (formerly NATO Supreme Allied Command), and fortune 500s: Amerigroup, Smithfield Foods, Dollar Tree, and of course Norfolk Southern.
You don't hear about places like Richmond and Norfolk because their steady growth is really all about external factors as opposed to places like Raleigh and Charlotte. For example, outside of stable industries that have been in Richmond for decades, it's growth has a lot to do with location and proximity to DC, while Norfolk/Hampton Roads growth is tied largely to military. On the other hand, Raleigh and Charlotte are growing so rapidly because of the actual high growth of the industries within (finance on one hand, and research/tech on the other). These days, really, Norfolk, Richmond, and most of more populated VA is economically and culturally linked to the DC area as a center of gravity, and by extension to the the greater Northeast, as opposed to Atlanta and areas further Southeast, as NC and Georgia firmly are.
IMHO, NC and VA are ahead of GA on most metrics. Also, VA has the highest HDI, inclusive of the entire South (0.945), followed by NC (0.929), and then GA (0.922). Human development index is the standard measure of quality of life, based on a number of dimensions. Measure of America: American Human Development Project
Check out these interesting maps from "The Atlantic Cities":
That's not so true. Richmond is home to six fortune 500s: Altria Group, Dominion Resources, Genworth Financial, CarMax Inc., Owens & Minor, MeadWestvaco. It's an extremely diversified economy that is stable. It's also, perhaps surprisingly so, the base of a lot of manufacturing and services.
That is to say, if you've ever smoked a cig, opened up a Trojan (condom), enjoyed Sabra hummus, have ever used a Mead pad or notebook, shopped at CarMax, travel on a 787 (with Rolls Royce engines), or gone on to a Tumblr page (Tumblr's only developers office, outside NY), you have 100% been touched by the Richmond region - all of these things are either manufactured or developed in Richmond.
You don't hear about places like Richmond and Norfolk because their steady growth is really all about external factors as opposed to places like Raleigh and Charlotte. For example, outside of stable industries that have been in Richmond for decades, it's growth has a lot to do with location and proximity to DC, while Norfolk/Hampton Roads growth is tied largely to military. On the other hand, Raleigh and Charlotte are growing so rapidly because of the actual high growth of the industries within (finance on one hand, and research/tech on the other). These days, really, Norfolk, Richmond, and most of more populated VA is economically and culturally linked to the DC area as a center of gravity, and by extension to the the greater Northeast, as opposed to Atlanta and areas further Southeast, as NC and Georgia firmly are.
The Triad is home to four Fortune 500's: Laboratory Corp. of America, VF, BB&T and Reynolds American. The Triad is also home to some higher end education in not just NC, but the entire country.
However the context of your second paragraph can be said about the Triad too. If you've ever drove in a Mack Truck, Volvo, smoked a pack of Camel, Pall Mall, Kool Winston, Salem, or Grizzly dip; went into a Krispy Kreme restaurant, ate at a K&W Cafeteria, or wore any type of Hanes and Ralph Lauren clothing, you're associating with the Triad.
I didn't mean as if these metros aren't important, which is how I think you took it. They've very much important, however these metros aren't adding anything to either states other than F500's and population. They're stable but stagnant.
As you said, Norfolk, Richmond and most of more populated VA is economically and culturally linked to DC as a center of gravity. That isn't the same case in North Carolina where one city/metro does not economically/culturally grow the others.
Also, Charlotte doesn't rely on the financial sector as heavily as before even though it still has the largest base then any other industry in the metro. The city is continuing to grow it's energy sector as well.
Last edited by JMT; 04-11-2013 at 03:15 AM..
Reason: Don't tell someone that s/he "cannot read"
The Triad is home to four Fortune 500's: Laboratory Corp. of America, VF, BB&T and Reynolds American. The Triad is also home to some higher end education in not just NC, but the entire country.
However the context of your second paragraph can be said about the Triad too. If you've ever drove in a Mack Truck, Volvo, smoked a pack of Camel, Pall Mall, Kool Winston, Salem, or Grizzly dip; went into a Krispy Kreme restaurant, ate at a K&W Cafeteria, or wore any type of Hanes and Ralph Lauren clothing, you're associating with the Triad.
I didn't mean as if these metros aren't important, which is how I think you took it. They've very much important, however these metros aren't adding anything to either states other than F500's and population. They're stable but stagnant.
As you said, Norfolk, Richmond and most of more populated VA is economically and culturally linked to DC as a center of gravity. That isn't the same case in North Carolina where one city/metro does not economically/culturally grow the others.
Also, Charlotte doesn't rely on the financial sector as heavily as before even though it still has the largest base then any other industry in the metro. The city is continuing to grow it's energy sector as well.
In the same post as this, you still say "...these metros aren't adding anything to either states other than F500's and population. They're stable but stagnant." I have no problem acknowledging the issues that VA has, but I certainly am not going to argue topics that are losers, as it seems that some of your points are. Several have posted factual information that refutes some things you claim as fact. One example of this is in the area of education- consistently claiming NC as the leader, when all data clearly shows that NC takes a backseat to VA in that area. You can, conveniently, separate higher ed- or just state schools and find balance, but education encompasses more than that. NC is a great state, and clearly preferred by more on this poll, but some of the arguments you make as to why NC is better just don't hold water. I would say that NC outshines VA in the way that it has developed infrastructure and in the way it recruits businesses. People see this and see NC as a vibrant and rapidly developing state- it makes them more willing to take a chance there. Another place NC clearly outshines VA is the debt burden that the state carries; it will give NC more flexibility going forward. Lastly, even though a large part of VA is centered along the "Golden Crescent," it is wrong to assume that the rest of VA is suffering. Most localities west of Richmond perform well in regards to economics, standards of living, opportunities, and education, the exception being parts of the state closest to NC- Danville, Martinsville, and the US 58 corridor.
In the same post as this, you still say "...these metros aren't adding anything to either states other than F500's and population. They're stable but stagnant." I have no problem acknowledging the issues that VA has, but I certainly am not going to argue topics that are losers, as it seems that some of your points are. Several have posted factual information that refutes some things you claim as fact. One example of this is in the area of education- consistently claiming NC as the leader, when all data clearly shows that NC takes a backseat to VA in that area. You can, conveniently, separate higher ed- or just state schools and find balance, but education encompasses more than that. NC is a great state, and clearly preferred by more on this poll, but some of the arguments you make as to why NC is better just don't hold water. I would say that NC outshines VA in the way that it has developed infrastructure and in the way it recruits businesses. People see this and see NC as a vibrant and rapidly developing state- it makes them more willing to take a chance there. Another place NC clearly outshines VA is the debt burden that the state carries; it will give NC more flexibility going forward. Lastly, even though a large part of VA is centered along the "Golden Crescent," it is wrong to assume that the rest of VA is suffering. Most localities west of Richmond perform well in regards to economics, standards of living, opportunities, and education, the exception being parts of the state closest to NC- Danville, Martinsville, and the US 58 corridor.
It's not me that's putting the schools in order. NC has the slight edge.
I haven't taken away from VA's extraordinary educations offerings, but I am giving NC more credit because the state as a whole has higher ranked universities than Virginia and that's what being discussed. Not so sure why you can't understand that.
It's not me that's putting the schools in order. NC has the slight edge.
I haven't taken away from VA's extraordinary educations offerings, but I am giving NC more credit because the state as a whole has higher ranked universities than Virginia and that's what being discussed. Not so sure why you can't understand that.
I did post grad in the UNC system... I just want to judge the entire educational spectrum, as there are quite a few people who have young children and quality public education is an important component of state ranking... in my opinion. I have to call a truce! You have a point about higher ed., which I won't refute (not only quality, but affordable, as well) so no sense in prolonging the conversation. We probably would end up agreeing on more than we disagree, in the long run.
VA is already leading the south and is the clear winner. Check any statistics and you will see. VA,NC, then GA. I lived in VA and NC and now I'm moving to ATL, so I'll have a chance to check it out. But from what I've seen of GA, it's poised to grow. That's all it can do. I've lived all over VA and NoVa isn't all of VA. The state is just more well balanced than the other two. I'd rather send my kids to VA schools than the others. VA pays much better overall, not just in NoVa, taxes are lower, car insurance is way lower, schools are ranked nationally as one of the best. It's the clear winner to me. But I love GA for the cost of living, just not for the high taxes or car insurance rates.
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