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I don't hate Houston. I don't know why it has a chip on its shoulder, but that seems to be a Texas thing, not necessarily a Houston thing. I live in a city a lot like Houston, Atlanta. For some reason, Houston boosters seem to hate Atlanta on this board, but the hate is not reciprocated.
This city does not have a chip on it's shoulder. Most of the people here or the general atmosphere here, is laid back. What I've found is that some who come here from other parts of the country tend to have a chip on their shoulder, because they've tried to make this city something that it's not.
I'm ok with Atlanta. I haven't been there for years. many years. But I had friends that moved there. When I would get intouch with them, they seemed to have gotten caught up in a poser-type mentality. Trying to keep up and make impressions. That's what I get from Atlanta. But otherwise, I think it's a cool city.
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I'd probably like Houston for a lot of the same reasons I like Atlanta. It's a suburbs+ kind of place -- ideal for raising a family and still enjoying some of the amenities of city life. As much as I love cities like NYC, Chicago, Boston and Philadelphia, I won't raise my daughter in that kind of environment. At her age, a good quality of life is having a front yard in a house on a cul de sac where neighborhood kids can gather and play. I can't really find that in Philly (or if I could, not at a price I can afford), but I can in Atlanta and Houston.
you know, I've never heard of a city be described as "suburban" or "one big suburb" until I started coming on City-Data.
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Houston annoys me when it tries to be something it's not -- as does Atlanta for the record. Houston is not a city, city -- or I don't want to call it. It's like obscenity -- we all know it when we see it. Sunbelt "cities" just don't quite qualify. If you have to drive everywhere, you're not in a city. As for Houston's population, come on ... get real... it's 500+ square miles... there are a number of 500+ square mile areas in the U.S. that match the population of Houston.
No, you get real, friend. You cannot dispute Houston's population BASED ON THE U.S. CENSUS. What part of that is foggy to you? Do you dispute Los Angeles being the 2nd largest? The population of Houston isn't arbitrary, random information. They count (or at least I believe) they count within the city limits. If they counted the population of the entire greater Houston area, (or the entire metropolitan area) we'd be 2nd largest. And y'all would really be catatonic.
One of the biggest misconceptions about Houston is this unsubstantiated claim of it trying to be something it's not. Houston is what it is. Again, people who come here have tried to make it something that it's not.
As I've stated many times here, Houston catches it on both sides. This city is bashed for not being as "urbanly dense" as other cities, yet at the same time is bashed and accused of trying to be something that it's not. What does that mean anyway?
Houston is as much of a city as Chicago, Los Angeles, Boston, Philadelphia, Miami, Seattle, Portland San Francisco, etc.... Never, ever have I seen a city railed against for its size, population, status, density, etc. Even to the point that people here scrutinize the U.S. Census that has determined that based on population size, Houston is the 4th largest. Something that has been established many, many years ago. Just as Chicago is the 3rd largest according to it, and Los Angeles, 2nd largest. None of which has been disputed, or criticized. Just Houston.
Last edited by Queen Palm; 05-23-2011 at 09:05 PM..
You,Algreen and spade evidently yall are not helping letting them bash Houston an not standing up,well I will because I know the economics.I think that some people on this thread are followers then leaders.I have partyed in Houston with people from around the world in 3rd ward,greenspoint etc..... but we have economic talk all the time.These people love Houston an when mentioning Philly they laugh Ha Ha Ha that is a old city People People People Philly is not what it is this century so early 1900,s lol.Houston is way more populated then Philly and METRO is larger in population this year then Philly.Philly on here questioning the census bearu,saying numbers are not accurate ha ha ha so I guess that makes yall bigger then NYC knowing the whole world know they have 8million strong but thats probably wrong let Philly tell it. One thing to say I wouldn't want to visit Philly if Houston is always in there mouth in a neg vibe because Houston isn't thinking about Philly in any kind of way.What algreen and spade can't understand is I know economics but have street sense.This grudge they have against my commets spiraled from other beginning threads.I notice that if they can't prove the points I made they hated it with a passion because they didn't come up with it first.
Almost forgot early some said to me why are you bring atlanta upon this thread well because atlanta is always on threads talkin down on houston.
I am tired of them bring up Marta if is this word or phrase is used again i am going to go crazy.This doesn't make yall more of a city then Houston,Dallas or Los Angeles.Yall city have a lot of work to do to catch up with the citys I mention.I use to stay there and its country,conservative,black and white,small compare to citys I mention and very very racist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Afonega's not bashing Houston. He's just stating his observation on the difference between the two cities.
Middle class flight was a significant cause of many downtrodden neighborhoods all over the US. Segregation was not as significant a driver in the NE.
Middle class flight has been happening way before desegregation and it did not affect third ward because the blacks had no where to flee to.
It was not till desegregation that they could flee and flee they did.
Btw many white hoods that saw middle class flight are making big comebacks all across the US in addition to HOuston, but in the black hoods you can't pay folks to move there. (well The Mexican's don't seem to mind the wards nowadays)
to TEXX - yes Philly has bad neighborhoods and agree the NE cities LOOK worse when they are bad because of the age and density. Both cities have far too much poverty than they should
to Fairlady - income is a far more reliable metric than GDP and what actually flows into the area. And on recession, did this only happen Houston, one would think as this is your rationale
On the population count without getting into a hiuge diatribe Philly is most likely adding back 2 or 3 counties that were part of the metro prior which will actually take the metro back up to between 6.5-6.8 million and a CSA between 6.8 and 7.0 million. Also this population will still be in less than half the area of the Houston MSA even at the CSA level
Philadelphia is also part of UA (Urbanized area) with a population of 29 Million based on the Census recomendation on re-configuration; comparably Houston is at 4.6 Million residents on this metric - yep they are really close; er Texas is getting closer to this number actually...
I wasn't really saying that Philadelphia or any other city didn't suffer from the recession, I was pointing out that perhaps Houston's major industries took it worst than Philadelphia's. When the US is in a period of growth, usually Houston grows much faster than the national average while the opposite happens in a recession, with the culprit likely correlated with the energy industry. While we have a more diverse economy than 30 years ago, it would be naive to think that the energy industry doesn't have a strong influence on our economy. The industry took a big hit when oil prices were at $30 a gallon compared to $100+ a few months back. We'll see how much current oil prices have an effect on the current Houston economy.
Also, while income is an important metric, economists still use the real gdp and gdp per capita as the main indicator to determine an economy's strength and output. Personal income is only a part of the pie that determines the GDP.
Finally, I'm not too big on comparing population size unlike the other Houston posters. I was just pointing out based on current data and trends, that the Houston MSA is going to pass the Philly MSA sometime this decade. If were up to me, I think some counties in the Houston MSA should be dropped. We have 5 counties that are above 291,000 people with Harris County being around 4.1 million. On the other hand, the rest of the 5 counties are below a population of 70,000, I seriously question what those 4 counties (not including Liberty County) contribute to the overall Houston metro. However this would be arbitrary on my part, while the census bureau has a metric that determines what makes a metropolitan area through commuting rates, which is why I find comparing metro boundaries irrelevant. It's their determination not ours or the cities.
Last edited by Fairlady Z; 05-23-2011 at 09:46 PM..
you know, I've never heard of a city be described as "suburban" or "one big suburb" until I started coming on City-Data.
No one's out to get Houston, Queen. It's a bias people have against non dense urban areas. For the record, I grew up in the Los Angeles suburbs, and L.A. gets it too. People from L.A. are constantly p*ssed because people from NYC and Chicago slam them for not being a "real city." It's just the nature of being a sunbelt city.
I wasn't really saying that Philadelphia or any other city didn't suffer from the recession, I was pointing out that Houston's major industries took it worst than Philadelphia's. When the US is in a period of growth, usually Houston grows much faster than the national average while the opposite happens in a recession, with the culprit likely correlated with the energy industry. While we have a more diverse economy than 30 years ago, it would be naive to think that the energy industry doesn't have a strong influence on our economy. The industry took a big hit when oil prices were at $30 a gallon compared to $100+ a few months back. We'll see how much current oil prices have an effect on the current Houston economy.
Also, while income is an important metric, economists still use the real gdp and gdp per capita as the main indicator to determine an economy's strength and output. Personal income is only a part of the pie that determines the GDP.
Finally, I'm not too big on comparing population size unlike the other Houston posters. I was just pointing out based on current data and trends, that the Houston MSA is going to pass the Philly MSA sometime this decade. If were up to me, I think some counties in the Houston MSA should be dropped. We have 5 counties that are above 291,000 people with Harris County being around 4.1 million. On the other hand, the rest of the 5 counties are below a population of 70,000, I seriously question what those 4 counties (not including Liberty County) contribute to the overall Houston metro. However this would be arbitrary on my part, while the census bureau has a metric that determines what makes a metropolitan area through commuting rates, which is why I find comparing metro boundaries irrelevant. It's their determination not ours or the cities.
GDP is better national or even regional metric - very diminished in significance at the metro level, especially when it is as impacted as a single metric like the price of Oil (Actually one of the largest Philly Co's is also one of the largest Oil Cos inthe world Sunoco). But do agree it is relevant. But would also argue the growth of Houston GDP has been significantly related to the price of oil and the correlation to income to the area (BTW Income is not a component of GDP) is not as impacted, This is not to say the Houston is bad I actually think it is quite good and will continue to grow.
One thing to point out on the difference and the Census designations and impacts. The economy in Philly is actually very understated on GDP and Income and the areas right next store literally (yet not counted by the Census as being included) and very intertwined are large economic areas unlike the peripheral counties around Houston and all this is really a part of the economic engine of the area. In an area smaller area-wise than the 5 core counties of Houston (by a considerable margin) there is another 100 Billion in GDP and Income (This excludes any of the NYC area which is also within miles of many parts of the Philly MSA). The real differance is the size of the counties (Huge in TX and tiny here) with complex commuter patterns keep some areas from linking at the MSA. Philly has long been a large economic engine and will continue to be, it is also one of the most diverse and stable/consistent economies in the country.
Just for perspective another area measure of the DMA covered for Philadelphia has a personal income of over 400 Billion (NYC is 980 Billion on perspective) and add more than 100 Billion in additonal GDP to Philly as well; this when compared to the MSA number. Interestingly this same metric, DMA actually drops out most of the counties you questioned the ties with in Houston while adding many in the Philly area people argue are actually intertwined and connected yet not included in the MSA by the Census
Last edited by kidphilly; 05-23-2011 at 10:29 PM..
This city does not have a chip on it's shoulder. Most of the people here or the general atmosphere here, is laid back. What I've found is that some who come here from other parts of the country tend to have a chip on their shoulder, because they've tried to make this city something that it's not.
I'm ok with Atlanta. I haven't been there for years. many years. But I had friends that moved there. When I would get intouch with them, they seemed to have gotten caught up in a poser-type mentality. Trying to keep up and make impressions. That's what I get from Atlanta. But otherwise, I think it's a cool city.
you know, I've never heard of a city be described as "suburban" or "one big suburb" until I started coming on City-Data.
No, you get real, friend. You cannot dispute Houston's population BASED ON THE U.S. CENSUS. What part of that is foggy to you? Do you dispute Los Angeles being the 2nd largest? The population of Houston isn't arbitrary, random information. They count (or at least I believe) they count within the city limits. If they counted the population of the entire greater Houston area, (or the entire metropolitan area) we'd be 2nd largest. And y'all would really be catatonic.
One of the biggest misconceptions about Houston is this unsubstantiated claim of it trying to be something it's not. Houston is what it is. Again, people who come here have tried to make it something that it's not.
As I've stated many times here, Houston catches it on both sides. This city is bashed for not being as "urbanly dense" as other cities, yet at the same time is bashed and accused of trying to be something that it's not. What does that mean anyway?
Houston is as much of a city as Chicago, Los Angeles, Boston, Philadelphia, Miami, Seattle, Portland San Francisco, etc.... Never, ever have I seen a city railed against for its size, population, status, density, etc. Even to the point that people here scrutinize the U.S. Census that has determined that based on population size, Houston is the 4th largest. Something that has been established many, many years ago. Just as Chicago is the 3rd largest according to it, and Los Angeles, 2nd largest. None of which has been disputed, or criticized. Just Houston.
I think it has something to do with the fact that land area wise it is so large - given that core area there are at least 7 cities I am positive are larger given that space (NYC, Boston, Philly, Chicago, LA, DC, SF) and a good chance that Detroit and Baltimore may also be larger in their core 580 sq miles so many feel the metric though technically accurate is in reality a little flawed
Just for perspective on this comparison the core similar sq mileage in Philly contains well over a million more people in the same area as are in the city of Houston
GDP is better national or even regional metric - very diminished in significance at the metro level, especially when it is as impacted as a single metric like the price of Oil (Actually one of the largest Philly Co's is also one of the largest Oil Cos inthe world Sunoco). But do agree it is relevant. But would also argue the growth of Houston GDP has been significantly related to the price of oil and the correlation to income to the area (BTW Income is not a component of GDP) is not as impacted, This is not to say the Houston is bad I actually think it is quite good and will continue to grow.
One thing to point out on the difference and the Census designations and impacts. The economy in Philly is actually very understated on GDP and Income and the areas right next store literally (yet not counted by the Census as being included) and very intertwined are large economic areas unlike the peripheral counties around Houston and all this is really a part of the economic engine of the area. In an area smaller area-wise than the 5 core counties of houston by a considerable there is another 100 Billion in GDP and Income (This excludes any of the NYC area which is also within miles of many parts of the Philly MSA). The real differance is the size of the counties (Huge in TX and tiny here) with complex commuter patterns keep some areas from linking at the MSA. Philly has long been a large economic engine and will continue to be, it is also one of the most diverse and stable/consistent economies in the country.
Just for perspective another area measuret of DMA covered for Philadelphia has a personal income of over 400 Billion (NYC is 980 Billion on perspective) and add more than 100 Billionin GDP to Philly as well when compared to the MSA number. Oddly this same metric DMA actually drops out most of the counties you questioned the ties with in Houston
My mistake on the income being a part of the GDP aggregate, which I confused with consumption expenditures. My point was that GDP expenditure is every bit as important as income received by residents and neither should be discounted in determining a metro's economic prowess regardless of size.
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