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I'm not agreeing or disagreeing-- not taking a side either way. But I'm not sure the streetview posted is a good illustrator of the point you're trying to make. That's pretty suburban by Chicago standards; more akin to inner-city St. Paul or Milwaukee than the Southside. I've spent plenty of time on the Southside-- whole family is from Bridgeport, sister lived in Hyde Park. Family has since moved in different directions, some in Oak Lawn, some in Oak Park, but all pretty much universally on the south or west side of town or immediate south or western suburbs. From my experience, the parts/neighborhoods of the Southside that are still structurally intact are quite a bit more structurally dense than what that streetview of 12th and Clairmont illustrated.
But I haven't followed this debate closely, so maybe I didn't even get your point lol
I think you'd be surprised actually....Chicago's "bungalow belt" isn't too much more dense than Minneapolis', St. Pauls', Milwaukee's, Detroit's, etc. It's the OTHER 50% of Chicago, with 3-5 story flats and SF townhomes with multiple famlies residing in them that make Chicago's density unparalleled.
But I haven't followed this debate closely, so maybe I didn't even get your point lol
It's just a simple misunderstanding.
You keep comparing modern day Detroit to Chicago.
The point I'm making is during Detroit's heyday, Detroit was akin to Chicago's South Side (and West Side).
A lot of neighborhoods in Detroit had density levels in the 15,000-20,000 range like a lot of Chicago's South Side neigborhoods do today (Cass Corridor had density levels around 30,000).
It's just that a lot of those neighborhoods have been demolished, and only the suburban ones now are intact as the people in Detroit have gradually migrated from the center of the city to the outskirts.
I think you'd be surprised actually....Chicago's "bungalow belt" isn't too much more dense than Minneapolis', St. Pauls', Milwaukee's, Detroit's, etc. It's the OTHER 50% of Chicago, with 3-5 story flats and SF townhomes with multiple famlies residing in them that make Chicago's density unparalleled.
The "bungalow belt" though (btw, cool term....I'm stealing it ) in Chicago is really more Cicero/Oak Park down to Oak Lawn/Alsip, in my experience. Maybe there's quite a bit of that on the West Side, which I'm less familiar with. The South Side (what's structurally intact, anyway-- not vacant lots, large projects, or "new urbanist" projects that replaced the large subsidized housing projects) is mostly rowhouses, shotgun houses, small detached bungalows, or small apartment complexes, all on significantly smaller lots than what you would find in much of MSP (although some of the Near Northside of Milwaukee around Marquette gets close). Again, this is just my experience.
And, like any other place, Chicago neighborhoods are usually denser around big arterial routes and mass transit.
The point I'm making is during Detroit's heyday, Detroit was akin to Chicago's South Side (and West Side).
A lot of neighborhoods in Detroit had density levels in the 15,000-20,000 range like a lot of Chicago's South Side neigborhoods do today (Cass Corridor had density levels around 30,000).
It's just that a lot of those neighborhoods have been demolished, and only the suburban ones now are intact as the people in Detroit have gradually migrated from the center of the city to the outskirts.
Well, *I'm* not the one that "keeps comparing", because I just joined in! lol
But I think I get your point. Yes-- more of Chicago is structurally intact. Both cities developed around the same time....Chicago, maybe a couple decades before Detroit. So, some of the housing stock in Chicago is a little older, but for the most part, the housing stock would have looked pretty similar in both cities around, say, 1950 or 1960?
And yes, more of the multi-unit stuff in Chicago has survived. I do think, however, that single-family stuff was always on smaller plots in Chicago than in Detroit. But I guess your point is that really close to Detroit's core it was close to Chicago-size lots, but not enough of that still exists to be able to paint an accurate picture....?
Rowhouse neighborhoods do not have 60 thousand ppsm. Unless you were simply exaggerating for effect, which maybe you were. Brooklyn is around 35,000 ppsm.
Wrong.
Not all of Brooklyn is residential, and not all residential areas are rowhouses. Many rowhouse neighborhoods in Brooklyn are roughly 60k /sq mile. The lack of alleys, fewer (or no) surface parking, and slightly narrower streets help increase the density relative to neighborhoods in other cities. streetCould show some streetviews and census data, but it might hijacked the thread from its midwestern focus.
We should do metros instead of cities because the metro really show the true population of the city!
Please, not another city vs. metro debate
Other than that, Indianapolis no longer has the traditional older look. It was very derelict in preserving its historic neighborhoods and some they completely just plowed over. It's also a traditional sfdu city.
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) in Chicago is really more Cicero/Oak Park down to Oak Lawn/Alsip, in my experience. Maybe there's quite a bit of that on the West Side, which I'm less familiar with. The South Side (what's structurally intact, anyway-- not vacant lots, large projects, or "new urbanist" projects that replaced the large subsidized housing projects) is mostly rowhouses, shotgun houses, small detached bungalows, or small apartment complexes, all on significantly smaller lots than what you would find in much of MSP (although some of the Near Northside of Milwaukee around Marquette gets close). Again, this is just my experience.
