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They don't list that, but 1600 3rd St NW would be 90,861.
For 2027? Ok, thanks! That makes a whole lot more sense. That side of DC has historically been way less dense than the areas you captured before (U Street, Shaw, Dupont Circle, Logan Circle) when you came up with 92,701. It is only a matter of time before the eastern side of the urban core referenced in the address you used 1600 3rd St NW crushes the western side of the urban core. I can't wait to see 2030 and 2035 numbers in the future. I'm also interested to see Navy Yard, Buzzard Point, Waterfront Station, and The Wharf numbers in the future.
Again, thanks for the data. You didn't have to compile it and I know everyone on the board appreciates it.
Downtown Baltimore where if you’re not gettin. Hassled (or shot) by squeegee boys… video production crews are getting threatened with being shot (yes, that is what happened) and financially extorted by thugs. To the point where they shut down production and move the entire crew to a different location. This wouldn’t happen in Harbor East or Inner Harbor…
Now this is starting to align more with my estimates for population growth in the Mt. Vernon Triangle, Northwest One, NOMA, Union Market area. If it will reach 98,170 by the year 2027, it will be way over 100,000 by 2030 when many of the projects will be finished and leased up. These few projects are just the tip of the iceberg in that area:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
Also, I realized the discrepancy is the 2027 deadline. Most of the projects I'm referring to won't be fully leased by 2027. Many aren't starting till the end of 2024 and some are further than that. This is a long-term conversation anyway. Full buildout for these neighborhoods will happen after 2030 honestly.
That area has a long way to go before it reaches the 150,000+ mark, but the amount of buildings in the pipeline will definitely push it beyond that mark and flirt with something between 150,000 and 200,000 potentially.
This is getting further from the "Top 10 Downtowns," but might help inform that discussion.
Residents in one-mile radius, 2022: --New York (Manhattan), 135 Crosby: 271,114 --New York (Manhattan), 102 W 116th: 225,468 --New York (Manhattan), 50 W 34th: 208,104
--New York (Manhattan), 1008 Ave of the Americas: 205,284 --New York (Manhattan), 50 Central Park S: 203,678 --New York (Brooklyn), 276 Livingston: 167,238 --San Francisco (north Tenderloin), 605 Ellis: 150,401 --Los Angeles (Koreatown), 3324 Wilshire: 147,470
--San Francisco (Civic Center, S Tenderloin), 350 Ellis: 141,826
--Chicago (River North), 222 W Erie: 134,653 --Chicago (Loop), 348 Lake, 112,275 --Boston, 100 Clarendon (Back Bay Station): 108,915
--Seattle (Downtown), 906 Pine: 108,515
--Los Angeles (Downtown), 601 S Figueroa: 101,773
--Philadelphia, 1300 Locust: 98,852 (similar a few blocks south) --DC, 1514 15th St NW: 92,701
--Miami, 33 SW 2nd: 89,926 (dense area is relatively narrow)
--DC, 1030 15th St NW: 80,858 --Long Beach, CA, 640 Long Beach Blvd: 78,583 --Hollywood, CA, 1300 Vine: 66,189
--Honolulu, 550 S Beretania: 61,784 --Oakland, 2029 Broadway: 55,917 --Newark, 580 MLK: 55,210
--Portland, 1331 SW Washington: 54,059
--Denver, 1570 Tremont: 53,422 --Arlington, VA, 3401 Fairfax: 53,166
--San Diego, 1130 7th: 51,218 --Seattle (U District), 1300 NE 45th: 48,792
--Minneapolis, 910 Lasalle: 46,539 --San Jose, 315 E San Fernando: 45,070 --Atlanta (Midtown), 675 Peachtree: 42,176
--Baltimore, 250 N Calvert: 39,370
--Dallas, 1801 N Pearl: 35,348 --Providence, 115 W Exchange: 33,448
--Austin, 920 Colorado: 33,242
--Atlanta (CBD), 384 Peachtree: 32,678
--Milwaukee, 929 N Water: 31,831
--Sacramento, 1325 15th: 30,807 --Pittsburgh (Oakland), 3805 Forbes: 30,315 --Bellevue, WA, 550 106th Ave NE: 29,861
--Houston, 601 Jefferson: 29,101
--Charlotte, 400 E Stonewall: 27,454 --Tacoma, 615 S 9th: 25,526
--Phoenix, 702 N Central: 25,014
--Buffalo, 707 Washington: 24,579
--Cincinnati, 44 E Court: 23,583 --Kansas City (Plaza), 4312 JC Nichols: 23,405
--New Orleans, 600 Loyola Ct.: 22,615 --St. Louis (West End), 4440 Lindell: 22,560
--Tampa, 921 N Morgan: 21,880 --St. Paul, 600 N Robert: 21,818
--Columbus, 456 E Cherry: 20,722
--Pittsburgh (Downtown), 717 Grant: 19,523
--Las Vegas, 501 E 8th: 19,496
--San Antonio, 300 Convent: 17,633
--St. Louis (Downtown), 1531 Pine: 17,404
--Cleveland, 1802 Chester: 17,297
--Kansas City (Downtown), 601 E 12th: 15,880
--Jacksonville, 330 State: 15,052
--Detroit, 2301 Woodward: 14,325
--Memphis: 336 Monroe: 14,090
--Fort Worth, 501 W Lancaster: 13,462
--Oklahoma City, 701 Couch: 11,181
They have Canada but only in kilometers. A two-kilo radius would be 12.56 square kilos if I'm doing it right, or 1.54x the one-mile radius.
--Toronto, 336 Yonge: 246,014 (159,749 for the average square mile)
--Vancouver, 1088 Homer: 158,022 (102,611 for the average square mile; lots of water)
--Montreal, 475 Av du President-Kennedy: 124,713 (80,982 average; dense area is fairly narrow)
So I was playing around with the radius tool on google maps which allows you to measure distance. From what I can see, all of Greater Center City Philadelphia, Greater Downtown Boston, Greater Downtown San Francisco, and Greater Downtown Seattle would be included in their population count for the most part. I'm sure their concentrated development and skyscrapers play a role in that footprint. Do those cities have additional midtown or separate downtown areas outside of the 1-mile radius with similar current density or future 2027 density?
That data would be very interesting especially when compared to the king of density NYC which has many areas with similar density that don't overlap providing high density neighborhood options all over the city miles from each other and Chicago is probably another one. Your data has shown DC is another city with high density neighborhoods miles from each other that don't overlap, but that is a result of height limits, so it really isn't organic. Height limits create that.
My question is whether multiple neighborhoods with the highest density exist in cities outside NYC, Chicago, and DC miles from each other? I would guess San Fran does and maybe South Philly? American cities have created zoning that limits density outside downtown areas which seems to be preventing this.
My question is whether multiple neighborhoods with the highest density exist in cities outside NYC, Chicago, and DC miles from each other? I would guess San Fran does and maybe South Philly? American cities have created zoning that limits density outside downtown areas which seems to be preventing this.
Well, the intersting thing in Kansas City is, that densest one-mile radius you found is not downtown, but rather in between Westport (the city's principal entertainment district as well as the oldest part of the city, predating its settlement in 1838 and incorporation in 1850) and the Country Club Plaza, the nation's first planned shopping center (ringed by apartment buildings, more than half of them high-rises).
I believe the Plaza is classed as an "edge city."
The dense area you found in St. Louis is likewise away from downtown; I don't know if the Central West End or the adjacent commercial district to its east, which would also lie within that one-mile radius, is considered an edge city or not (I suspect not).
And part of the reason for this is, despite rapid population growth in the downtown-adjacent districts in both cities, both KC and StL still have rather small downtown residential populations.
By the way, that's 4312 Mill Creek Parkway (I think I've explained why in one thread or other here on C-D), and there's not even a building at that address: it's parkland just north of St. Luke's Hospital.
Well, the intersting thing in Kansas City is, that densest one-mile radius you found is not downtown, but rather in between Westport (the city's principal entertainment district as well as the oldest part of the city, predating its settlement in 1838 and incorporation in 1850) and the Country Club Plaza, the nation's first planned shopping center (ringed by apartment buildings, more than half of them high-rises).
I believe the Plaza is classed as an "edge city."
The dense area you found in St. Louis is likewise away from downtown; I don't know if the Central West End or the adjacent commercial district to its east, which would also lie within that one-mile radius, is considered an edge city or not (I suspect not).
And part of the reason for this is, despite rapid population growth in the downtown-adjacent districts in both cities, both KC and StL still have rather small downtown residential populations.
By the way, that's 4312 Mill Creek Parkway (I think I've explained why in one thread or other here on C-D), and there's not even a building at that address: it's parkland just north of St. Luke's Hospital.
That is interesting, but it may have more to do with the depopulation of those cities? St. Louis used to have 856,796 people within 61.72 sq miles. I'm sure that downtown area would have had extreme density back then right? I know household sizes are way lower now, but there was a lot of residential density I would assume.
To your point, DC was similar until recently, nobody lived in downtown DC. Looking at the radius tool by zip code, the 20009 zip code in DC appears to have more people than anywhere in Boston and Philadelphia despite those cities being denser overall. I think DC's suburban outer neighborhoods play a role in the perception that DC has not passed those cities in peak density when the data seems to say otherwise.
Total Population Within 1-Mile Radius
DC = 101,885 people
Boston = 99,052 people
Philly = 94,304 people
I thought this stat was pretty interesting too:
Population Between Ages 25-34
DC = 37,758 people
Philly = 34,161 people
Boston = 26,482 people
Population Between Ages 35-44
DC = 17,925 people
Philly = 12,601 people
Boston = 10,275 people
Population Between Ages 25-44
DC = 55,683 people
Philly = 46,762 people
Boston = 36,757 people
The biggest difference in "who" lives in these areas is this below:
Population Between Ages 15-19
Boston = 10,477 people
DC = 2,126 people
Philly = 1,985 people
*** Just and FYI, Boston's population in the data collection above includes areas outside Boston city limits. Keeping the radius within Boston city limits produced far lower population counts so I wanted to show Boston and its suburbs together.***
Last edited by MDAllstar; 08-29-2022 at 12:41 PM..
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