Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You do realize that leases unless up for renewal predate 2023 right? COVID has changed rent which is a really good thing for DC’s nightlife and retail future. Do you know how much rent was in 2010-2019 for these businesses? It’s already proving beneficial as many tenants that couldn’t afford the barrier for entry into downtown DC are now opening spots. This is especially true for people of color will tons of new restaurants and retail that is minority owned.
That is what has happened in Downtown St. Louis with retail. A lot of Black owned retail stores and restaraunts have opened in the last two years. Opportunity is in all seasons of life.
You do realize that leases unless up for renewal predate 2023 right? COVID has changed rent which is a really good thing for DC’s nightlife and retail future. Do you know how much rent was in 2010-2019 for these businesses? It’s already proving beneficial as many tenants that couldn’t afford the barrier for entry into downtown DC are now opening spots. This is especially true for people of color with tons of new restaurants and retail that is minority owned.
You were the one claiming that DC can't have downtown bar-hopping like Austin because it's too expensive, and that just isn't true. DT Austin is not cheap by any metric, yet it has like 5 different bar hopping districts. The difference is purely local culture: In Austin people travel downtown for nightlife to a greater extent than people in DC do. As I mentioned to DC's credit, a lot of this is because DC has a lot of other cool areas whereas metro Austin is pretty lame outside of the core/downtown area.
This thread is about downtowns, however, and on that front I'm pretty meh on DC. It's a massive employment center and, at least from my personal experience, not very intersecting beyond that.
I think it's absolutely top 20, no question. I lean toward no on top 10. I think it is (barely) in the top 10 of the cities that I have visited, but there are enough major US downtowns that I have missed to give me doubt that I would have it top 10 if including those.
But, obviously this is subjective. DC was one example of a big city that I didn't find to have a particularly interesting downtown at all, and other posters disagree. I'm ok with that. (Nothing against DC as it is a really cool city in a beautiful area).
The problem with your comparison is the size of the urban cores being compared. Saying DC doesn’t have an interesting downtown is similar to saying NYC doesn’t have an interesting downtown when referring to Midtown NYC. Cities like NYC, DC, Chicago, etc. have high intensity neighborhoods that blend together and are far more urban and developed than almost all cities being discussed. Are you talking about Penn Quarter, Dupont Circle, Logan Circle, Navy Yard, The Wharf, NOMA, Union Market, Shaw, Mid City, Foggy Bottom, Georgetown etc., etc.?
When someone has to tell you where you are because most visitors can’t tell when downtown starts and where it ends, those cities have separated themselves. That may be more true in DC than most cities because of height limits and the development intensity over such a large area which is unique to DC. A poster in this thread actually referenced the Wharf and Navy Yard when talking about Downtown DC because you can’t tell what is Downtown DC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by austiNati
Over the summer I spent a lot of time in Philly and DC, so I had to think hard on that one. Thinking about it now, you're right because I'm associating a lot of areas with downtown DC that are NOT downtown after a second thought. I'm talking the ballpark and Wharf areas of the city. Those are entirely new/repurposed districts. Downtown Philly has always been impressive, and I finally got to hit up that giant market and checkout their waterfront. That city is legendary.
I was hoping that the socioeconomic meltdown of Portland didn't affect downtown too much, but I've heard that it isn't getting any better. Shame, because that is one beautiful city.
The poster may even be from Austin. At the end of the day, DC and Austin/Nashville are apples and oranges for this reason.
You were the one claiming that DC can't have downtown bar-hopping like Austin because it's too expensive, and that just isn't true. DT Austin is not cheap by any metric, yet it has like 5 different bar hopping districts. The difference is purely local culture: In Austin people travel downtown for nightlife to a greater extent than people in DC do. As I mentioned to DC's credit, a lot of this is because DC has a lot of other cool areas whereas metro Austin is pretty lame outside of the core/downtown area.
This thread is about downtowns, however, and on that front I'm pretty meh on DC. It's a massive employment center and, at least from my personal experience, not very intersecting beyond that.
Question for you? How many years does it take a nightlife district to form? Based on that answer, wouldn’t history play a major role in what type of nightlife is located where? Unless Downtown DC was affordable over the past 10 years, how would bars locate there? Even restaurants struggle in Downtown DC. If bars are coming to Downtown DC now that rent is cheaper, it will happen over the next decade.
The problem with your comparison is the size of the urban cores being compared. Saying DC doesn’t have an interesting downtown is similar to saying NYC doesn’t have an interesting downtown when referring to Midtown NYC. Cities like NYC, DC, Chicago, etc. have high intensity neighborhoods that blend together and are far more urban and developed than almost all cities being discussed. Are you talking about Penn Quarter, Dupont Circle, Logan Circle, Navy Yard, The Wharf, NOMA, Union Market, Shaw, Mid City, Foggy Bottom, Georgetown etc., etc.?
When someone has to tell you where you are because most visitors can’t tell when downtown starts and where it ends, those cities have separated themselves. That may be more true in DC than most cities because of height limits and the development intensity over such a large area which is unique to DC. A poster in this thread actually referenced the Wharf and Navy Yard when talking about Downtown DC because you can’t tell what is Downtown DC.
Not sure about all of these places, but in general, no I am not. I've done nightlife in DC in places like U Street, Adams Morgan, and Navy Yards. None of these places would be mistaken with "downtown" in the context of Washington DC. Do they feel like an urban, big city, of course, probably even more so than Downtown Austin (which distinctly does not feel like a big east coast city because it is in fact not one), but do they feel like "downtown Washington DC", no, not at all to me.
The nightlife areas in downtown Austin are unmistakably downtown. Anyone who lives in the city would describe these places as "downtown".
Not sure about all of these places, but in general, no I am not. I've done nightlife in DC in places like U Street, Adams Morgan, and Navy Yards. None of these places would be mistaken with "downtown" in the context of Washington DC. Do they feel like an urban, big city, of course, probably even more so than Downtown Austin (which distinctly does not feel like a big east coast city because it is in fact not one), but do they feel like "downtown Washington DC", no, not at all to me.
The nightlife areas in downtown Austin are unmistakably downtown. Anyone who lives in the city would describe these places as "downtown".
I drove through downtown Detroit fairly recently and it was scary-looking to me. I keep hearing how great it is but I didn't see it. By comparison Memphis of late is lively, urbane, filled with character, and tied nicely to the river.
I've been to downtown Milwaukee and I thought it was absolutely beautiful...great buildings, gorgeous lakefront, a warehouse district and an adjacent midtown-type neighborhood tied seamlessly to both the downtown as well as the first suburbs along the lakefront. I wouldn't put it in the top 10 because it was relatively quiet, but it's pretty, pleasant, and safe.
Downtown Seattle to me is a bunch of very tall glass buildlings. I didn't feel a desire to walk around that area. However, as the downtown transitions to more mid-rise buildings, it becomes lively and quite beautiful. The rest of the city obviously is stunning.
I do agree that downtown Portland is beautiful, with so many historic-style buildings from the early 20th century. I don't know about top 10 but to me Portland is way up there (or else it would be if the city was committed to public safety).
I drove through downtown LA and to me it wasn't pretty. The roads are too wide and it felt grimy. There are many gorgeous areas of LA but to me this wasn't one of them.
In my visit to downtown Minneapolis, I did not feel completely safe. I was relieved to get to the truly lively areas close to Lake Harriet (at the intersection of Lake and Lyndale, where Minneapolis truly shines).
Chicago I thought was stunning from top to bottom. I drove north from the heart of downtown, past the Wrigley Field area up to Evanston and the wealthy suburbs. All I can say is wow. Just wow. To me it was in league with London.
DC - Yes, phenomenal.
Denver - Absolutely huge and very lively downtown. A boomtown.
St Pete - I hear great things. Mile after mile of cute shops and restaurants, amid shiny new apartment buildings near waterside parks.
Atlanta - Midtown is the star in Atlanta and I was stunned to see the change from when I live there in the late 1980s. I"m not sure I loved it (lots of huge buildings but maybe a little too big/modern....or something).
Nashville - When I lived there in the early 1990s downtown Nashville had one restaurant. I hear it's changed. But I also hear it's been ruined by bachelorettes.
Omaha - A smaller city but I was there for the CWS and I thought the city was beautiful. Great old town area, a sleek, landscaped area near the stadium and convention center, and a business center. They also have pretty rolling hills and numerous beautiful neighborhoods with cute walkable districts.
Look man, this is downtown Austin on a random weekend night. There is nowhere in DC that looks like this, much less that anyone who lives there calls downtown.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,558,075 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by whereiend
You were the one claiming that DC can't have downtown bar-hopping like Austin because it's too expensive, and that just isn't true. DT Austin is not cheap by any metric, yet it has like 5 different bar hopping districts. The difference is purely local culture: In Austin people travel downtown for nightlife to a greater extent than people in DC do. As I mentioned to DC's credit, a lot of this is because DC has a lot of other cool areas whereas metro Austin is pretty lame outside of the core/downtown area.
This thread is about downtowns, however, and on that front I'm pretty meh on DC. It's a massive employment center and, at least from my personal experience, not very intersecting beyond that.
You're comparing downtowns that aren't in the same league. Downtown Washington is simply a more expansive and more amenity filled downtown than Austin, Nashville etc. There's not more to do for families traveling to Austin in the downtown than DC, there's not more shopping nor variety of it in the downtown. Does DT Austin even have an Apple store? DC has more hotel rooms in downtown alone than most major cities do in their entire proper including Austin. The foot traffic disparity is also no comparison. You can't compare Austin's downtown to any of the legacy cities being mentioned honestly because they simply are more comprehensive and well more established as a fixture of their cities.
Lower Manhattan is a massive employment center and largely "uninteresting". It also still levels above Austin's Downtown too. To be quite honest I don't see what is all that quite interesting about Austin's downtown aside glitzy new high rises and having a decent bar scene. It largely looks like Midtown ATL, or Downtown Charlotte, and is still a bit behind them in overall amenities for now. Those are each places that are desirable for many to live in, no doubt. As well as Austin and Nashville, but none of those cities downtowns even scratch the radar of the top 6-8 comprehensively just because of having a "hopping bar scene". They don't have more to do in them overall plain and simple.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,558,075 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
Question for you? How many years does it take a nightlife district to form? Based on that answer, wouldn’t history play a major role in what type of nightlife is located where? Unless Downtown DC was affordable over the past 10 years, how would bars locate there? Even restaurants struggle in Downtown DC. If bars are coming to Downtown DC now that rent is cheaper, it will happen over the next decade.
Austin was not expensive in 2010 compared to DC.
Way too much back and forth with this one poster lol, bro no one in their logical mind thinks Austin's downtown is top 10 in the United States. It has gotten WAY better, and the city itself has switched leagues from a small time state capital, to legit mid-major US city. But it has a half-century of dues to pay before considering the downtown near top 10.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
