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I mean its one of those things that are hard to measure.
But the way interpret the thread is about White culture capital which I agree isn't Boston simply because, while the overwhelmingly majority of Boston's culture exports are white, they are European more so than white American. Cultural exports and demographics are different. Look at Houston. Houston's cultural exports are overwhelmingly black despite the fact they are only 25% of the population. Houston is WAYYYY more Hispanic than it is black in terms of what the population is and what it feels like on the ground. But that's not what the cultural exports are.
I know when I was in Boston, outside of places like Roslindale and Dorchester, I had to try really hard to even see an African American person. Its a very segregated place outside the areas to the Southwest. Downtown doesn't feel integrated at all. It feels very Irish and Italian with large numbers of people speaking Portuguese and large number of Chinese. So even though you probably are right the average native Bostonian not being white, when it comes to what your visitor is going to see or what your cultural exports are, Boston is very culturally white just of the European white variety.
I mean Roxbury Mattapan Mission Hill are all majority minority. South End and Jamaica Plain are about 45% minority. And then you have places to the North and South of the city with many African Americans. Roslindale really isn't even considered a black neighborhood like Hyde Park- it seems like you'd have to see more of the city. 7 of Boston neighborhoods are at least 10% African American and the two most populous residential neighborhoods both 40%+ African American. You will find the southwest isn't perceived as the most diverse region in the city- the geographic middle- to bury/mission hill/south end/north Dorchester usually is. But also the southeast has Mattapan- a over 70% black neighborhood of roslindales size. So it's really most of the city south of mass ave you can find African Americans. But downtown is north of Mass Ave.
That being said I was in Boston 3 weeks ago and I saw a goo number of African Americans Downtown and in Chinatown - but I didn't head to beacon hill Bakc Bay of Haymarket. It didn't feel terribly segregated as much as I remember, but In my experience, this fluctuates (somewhat) depending on the day, the season, and the time of day. In the summer when college students are home its usually more diverse downtown, as it is during the weekend. During the day, weekdays and during the school year veryyyy white. Very.
Boston would *certainly* be the only city that a list like this that is that heavily ninority amongst it's natives- were talking over 80% non-white. And then add that to the declining share of the white population and in number in virtually every town in the metro...it profiles in a very different way.
I wouldn't say Bopton exports are European- id say they mostly just white because of folks like Tom Brady and Larry Bird and Mark Wahlberg but Larry and Tom don't really like Boston and are more associated by the media than of their own choice. Most of what is exported is of sports teams and colleges that are 90% filled with people, not from Boston. And these are pretty all American guys- I wouldn't consider it European- but ethnic/elite/insular, sure. It does export and "Irish" or perhaps Italian identity, but the actual culture it exports in pop culture is Irish-American white, or white. And it does export and produces a reasonable number of Black celebrities, producers, socialites etc (Ayo Edebiri - Dorchester, from the Bear being the latest one) but its totally overshadowed.
Blue Hill Ave
Proud Mary
Lift
Squeeze
The Inkwell
Survivors Remorse
^All feature films that center a non-white Boston but don't get the same attention as a Good will Hunting, TED, Departed, Eddie Coyle, the town. None of which really feel European to me btw. However a place like Portland Denver even Nashville is completely devoid of such films/TV shows.
I do think tourism and perception matters, I just think when it comes to who is a native I know- objectively they probably aren't white. And where people choose to settle cases and typically it's not Boston over the past few decades the way it has been for Denver- who by the wat, I think has virtually no nonwhite representation at all. Which is why I chose Denver. It's also actually majority white.
One has to ask what is the culture of factors that repel white families from raising families in Boston- and those that do are almost exclusively very wealthy and elite or immigrants. Its not like you running into Joe and Susie Smith and they're two kids in Boston.
I don't think wed call ATL or DC ‘the black capital’ if it the black population were declining in the metro for 30 years. Is kind of my logic.
But as you said it's all subjective
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 06-26-2023 at 11:50 AM..
The ten whitest cities in the United States, including white Hispanics, are:
Hialeah, FL (92.6%)
Lincoln, NE (88%)
Boise, ID (87.9%)
Gilbert, AZ (87.9%)
Laredo, TX (87.7%)
Spokane, WA (85.3%)
Corpus Christi, TX (80.9%)
El Paso, TX (80.8%)
Scottsdale, AZ (80.1%)
Madison, WI (78.8%)
when El Paso (and Corpus for that matter) is on this list we know it has no relevance to this thread. That is one of the single least-white cities in the US. I'm sorry but lighter skinned Hispanics are not what people are thinking of when they say "White America".
Here is the El Paso city council. Classic example of "White America" running the show.
Considered including that caveat, which is both obviously true, but also, in my understanding, not what the poster meant by "mainstream" Southern culture in a discussion of "white America", since "mainstream" southern culture developed less in conversation with the massive contribution of African Americans, and more as a vehicle to the othering of it. An allegation that could be fairly leveled at all white American culture.
Considered including that caveat, which is both obviously true, but also, in my understanding, not what the poster meant by "mainstream" Southern culture in a discussion of "white America", since "mainstream" southern culture developed less in conversation with the massive contribution of African Americans, and more as a vehicle to the othering of it. An allegation that could be fairly leveled at all white American culture.
Try as they did but southern white culture is influenced by African American culture perhaps even African culture in a roundabout or transitive/long lost way. Obviously, African American culture is more heavily influenced by white Scots-Irish culture.
Modern mainstream white culture does include an acknowledgment and awareness of African American culture in the South.. And today's mainstream southern culture has elements of black in it too. Of course this varies greatly depending on what part of the south.
Also should keep in mind- I'm African American, and although I know the white culture well as a means of necessity and by virtue of living in the USA- I can really know it and perceive it as accurately as actual White Americans, so take what I say with grains of salt of course. In short- if you're white you would know better than I would.
Try as they did but southern white culture is influenced by African American culture perhaps even African culture in a roundabout or transitive/long lost way. Obviously, African American culture is more heavily influenced by white Scots-Irish culture.
Modern mainstream white culture does include an acknowledgment and awareness of African American culture in the South.. And today's mainstream southern culture has elements of black in it too. Of course this varies greatly depending on what part of the south.
Also should keep in mind- I'm African American, and although I know the white culture well as a means of necessity and by virtue of living in the USA- I can really know it and perceive it as accurately as actual White Americans, so take what I say with grains of salt of course. In short- if you're white you would know better than I would.
Yeah, we are on the same page. I did not mean that African and African diaspora culture was not an inherent, inseparable part of the formation and development of southern culture. I was just being lazy and didn't want to list all the various possible contributors to the creation of "mainstream southern culture". I, personally, think the 2 primary cultures that birthed Southern culture are the Scots-Irish and African Americans, but that's obviously not the entire spectrum of possible claimants. If someone said to me "African Americans created southern culture" I would find that to be as accurate as "Scots-Irish created southern culture". I didn't mean to imply they were the sole or exclusive creators, but perhaps I did. The contribution of Anglo-American gentry is obviously just as formative as either of those, to say nothing of all the other influences, from Native Americans to Acadians. I was just responding to the notion that Scots-Irish assimilated to "mainstream southern culture", by lazily pointing out that the exact opposite is more accurate.
Capital of White America? Basically anywhere that's consider trendy with Whites nowadays in no particular order:
DFW
Austin
Nashville Some Florida city
The "White" capital just changes over time of whatever is considered hip and trendy for Whites-Americans. There's no particular city that represents the whole of White-America imho.
Particularly Jacksonville. Not so much the other Florida cities. Miami is the capital of Hispanic America.
Try as they did but southern white culture is influenced by African American culture perhaps even African culture in a roundabout or transitive/long lost way. .
This is probably why the arguments get so heated about what is and what is not considered Southern and why African American posters are always the ones that argue hardest for certain cities being labeled "Southern".
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