Toronto vs. Philadelphia or Chicago? (moving, parks, expensive, nightlife)

[tcave360]

Originally Posted by Fitzrovian

Thanks Blaxtor, that's very kind of you. Like everybody, I have some cities that I like more and some that I like less but I try to stay balanced.

And I agree with you. Like I said to Trimac, every great city offers something unique. In Chicago's case you get a world class city with a stunning skyline (which some consider equal (or even superior) to NY's) on a lake. You have beaches next to skyscrapers as well as a beautiful river walk. And that's a totally different set-up from NY. You can be chilling on the beach and 15 minutes later having lunch or drinks on the 95th floor of the Hancock. You can't do that in NY.

Doesn't the Hancock Tower got a large indoor swimming pool on one of its highest floors as well?

[tcave360]

Originally Posted by BLAXTOR

I agree that it's 2nd after NYC but to me I feel that it's much closer to Chicago than to NYC by a long shot. I don't understand where some forumers like 18montclair get off thinking it ties NYC.

He's just some West Coast booster and more of big L.A. booster than his actual hometown of Oakland He does it ALL the time based on his posts. Many of us non-Californians and especially us East Coast forumers are more than capable of putting that demagogue in his place. I love California and I would love to visit it one day, but I just love my East Coast even more! And I don't need some damn homer more than 2,000 or so miles away to say otherwise 'Nah mean?

[fusion2]

I enjoyed reading your post because it was informative and it is always great to learn about other cities in City vs City - what I enjoy the most about this forum.

Toronto has many interesting historical milestones of note.. it is subjective which is more interesting but of note - we were invaded by y'all back in 1812 and what is now Downtown Toronto was the site of one of the biggest explosions the world had known up to that point when the artillery of fort york was intentionally lit to kill the invading Americans. Irononically, this attack on York - now Toronto resulted in the British invasion of Washington D.C and the burning of the "White" House. We had a massive influx of Irish refugees after the great Irish Potato Famine in the 1850's had our own great fire that wasn't so great in terms of lost architectural gems but a moment of note, but hey we still have the largest collection of Victorian-era industrial architecture and quite a good stock of Victorian homes to boot!

I do agree that Chicago has been a city of more historical influence and really has been a much bigger city than Toronto for most of both of their existence. It is only in the past month that T.O city proper population has driven past Chicago's.. Having said that, Toronto is such a dynamic and growing metropolis that it is carving out it's own influence right now, a place where over 200 different ethnic groups are working together to build something great . In so many ways we are a city that is defining itself and we are now what Chicago was, which is making it an incredible thing to be a part of and witness.

Originally Posted by thefallensrvnge

Never been to Philly, but in terms of TO vs CHI...

I prefer Chicago overall to because I feel it has a better sense of itself overall as a city. Chicago has it's own cuisine, accents, music style, architecture, and so on which I think came about from Chicago's boom being prior to the mass consumerism and MNC culture of today. Chicago size and influence was more unique at the turn of the 20th century, as large urban metropolis were still sort of a novelty, versus now where it seems almost every country has several. I do think Toronto has become more cosmopolitan, but Chicago has had a far, far more profound influence on urban culture. The influence from its history is sssoo interesting: the Red Summer, The Great Fire of 1871, The White City, its position on the forefront of the Roaring 20's, and the Sexual Revolution with Playboy, Burnham's Plan for Chicago, The St. Valentine's Day Massacre...a lot of struggle, but some moments of real brilliance as well. Its historically larger size also lends itself to the grandeur of its architecture with a larger stock of eclectic homes spread out for miles over the city (like Philly), and a veritable treasure trove of various skyscrapers in the downtown area from art deco to Gothic and Spanish revival to modern like the Aqua.

Sometimes I wish the Loop had more local business (though it still has many and some businesses like Walgreen's and Sears are technically local), but it's clean and well maintained to show for visitors, but mostly business visitors. The tourist usually know to take the El out into the neighborhoods for places like Devon, Cermak or Armitage. Not to say Chicago can't learn anything from Toronto, because it can. I think having TO's crime rate would be a nice start... but I think people hold Chi's crime against it too often. Study Chicago's history. Crime is not a new phenomenon, and it certainly has not stunted it from making some real achievements.

[tcave360]

Originally Posted by botticelli

True, but downtown DC is the most boring downtown I have seen among all large American cities. Except for the National Mall tourist area, the city has no people. Many beautiful buildings, but no street life, on restaurants with patios, no interesting boutique stores. It is blocks after blocks of buildings and empty streets if you go on a weekend. The only exception is Georgetown, which reminds me a lot of Toronto.

Nothing is more "sterile" than DC I would say.

Oh wow, really? Not trying to put you down or anything but tell me something, other than the Downtown area and the nearly 100% touristy areas of the National Mall, did you ever explore much of D.C. at all? Other than Georgetown, did you ACTUALLY made an effort to explore the other neighborhoods of D.C. were the more than 632,000 residents live in the heart of a major metropolitan area of over 5.7 million people?

Downtown D.C. do got some nice buildings but it also got some pretty bland ones too I must admit (We call it the K Street Syndrome around here LOL). Look, if you want to check out some boutique stores, check out H Street NE aka The Atlas District or Adams Morgan or M Street and Wisconsin Ave around Georgetown even the part of Capitol Hill around Eastern Market got some nice looking boutiques.

You want the local streetlife? Check out Chinatown/Gallery Place, H Street NE (I highly recommend a visit during the weekends), U Street (It's well-known as a Black Broadway and a Harlem before the actual Harlem as we all know it even existed!), Adams Morgan, Cleveland Park, Columbia Heights, Capitol Hill, Southwest Waterfront, The Wharf aka the Maine Avenue Fish Market (There is an actual onboard community too!), Rock Creek Park (Preferebly during the day), Navy Yard, Capitol Riverfront, Anacostia (It's a hood but it does have a charming main drag IMO which I'd advise you to stick to should you go there), Dupont Circle (The main "gayborhood" in DC), Logan Circle, Friendship Heights, West End, Brookland, Penn Quarter, Foggy Bottom, Bloomingdale, George Washington University's campus, K Street aka Lobbyist Row (Ok, architecturally this main thoroughfare is quite bland but its got a flow of pedestrian traffic and is a hotspot for nightlife and happy-hour), Howard University, LeDroit Park, Mt. Vernon Square, American University Park, Tenleytown, Mt. Pleasant, Kalorama Heights, Stanton Park, Embassy Row, Woodley Park, Cardozo, Petworth, etc.

Some of the major nightlife areas are not concentrated solely Downtown, but are rather decentralized throughout the entire city. These major nightlife districts are: Georgetown, Chinatown/Gallery Place, K Street, U Street, Dupont Circle, H Street NE, Capitol Hill (To some extent), Adams Morgan, Columbia Heights, Mt. Vernon Square (To some extent), and Cardozo (This nabe also has a sports bar called Nellie's and it has an outdoor balcony deckand I think AdMo aka Adams Morgan has some too). And the nightlife hours vary during the weeknights and weekend nights in most of these nightlife districts. Last calls are generally 2:00am during weeknights and Sundays and 3:00am to 4:00am in some nabes during weekend nights and occasionally during weeknights too. There are casual bars, sports bars, balcony bars, dive bars, happy-hour bars, hookah bars, lounges, clubs, a couple of megaclubs, restaurant/lounge hybrids, poetry clubs, theater, comedy clubs, orchestra, opera, etc. You can't go wrong here!

I would also strongly encourage you to explore parts of the metropolitan area as well. In Maryland, check out National Harbor (You can catch the water taxi from Georgetown's Waterfront to get there), Downtown Hyattsville, Mt. Rainier, Bethesda, Downtown Silver Spring, Rockville, College Park, Waldorf, and Friendship Heights on the MD side. May I also suggest heading further out from the immediate metro area and into Anne Arundel County and check out Annapolis, especially during the sailing tournaments. Head out into Frederick County and take a stroll around the city of Frederick (It is gorgeous!!) and head on further up into Baltimore.

In NOVA aka Northern Virginia, check out Tyson's Corner and Tyson's Galleria, Pentagon City (It can be sterile, but it's pretty nice over there and very diverse), Clarendon-Courthouse, Rosslyn (It's pretty damn sterile too but it can satisfy your skyscraper enthusiasm if you have one while you're in D.C.), Ballston, Old Town Alexandria (I HIGHLY recommend that you visit this place Based off of most of your preferences, I think you'll fall in love with this port city with a village-like atmosphere and you can also use the water taxis from either the G-Town Waterfront or Nat'l Harbor to get there), Crystal City (It's sterile but it is home to the Shirlington Movie Theater. It normally plays independent films and documentary films and maybe international films if you're ever interested) Leesburg, Reston Town Center, take a tour of the Pentagon if they're still doing it (It is a massive building both inside and out!), Mt. Vernon, Manassas, and Fredericksburg.

Trust me, if you go to wear the locals live and play, you're bound to wind up into the midst of things! Some of the things I like to do whenever I had into D.C. is to catch the Metro on the Green Line out of PG County and head out into Chinatown/Gallery Place to catch a movie at the Regal Cinema, people-watch, see a music concert (Trying to get tickets for Rihanna's April 29th show at the moment) check out some street performers doing random stuff, and/or go out to eat at one of the many restaurants around there. I also love going to the DC Improv on occasions on 1140 Connecticut Ave, which is still technically downtown, I love heading to the Smithsonian National Zoo (Both tourists and locals frequent that place everyday and year and I used to volunteer there) and have been going there since before I was in Kindergarten back in the late-90's. I love visiting my grandmother at her apartment around Fort Lincoln where the new Costco is right now and I even love going to some of the museums too! Btw, not all of the museums in D.C. are concentrated directly on the Mall

Downtown D.C. is mostly for work anyways whether you work for the federal government or the local city government of D.C. And many of us locals within both the city and the metro area normally don't go to Downtown to have a fun weekend. There are many other parts of the city where we congregate. Work Hard, Play Hard

I know you're probably familiar with the old saying "When in Rome". Well I'll say this: When in D.C., do what the locals (Natives and Transplants) do and check out our favorite watering holes and gathering spots! Do this, and you'll truly experience the distinctive contrasts between the two Washingtons! Because around here, Washington is basically the Federal Gov't, the Politico culture, Congress, the White House, a kinda conservative vibe, and the National Mall. And D.C. is basically the actual neighborhoods, the real native culture, the City Gov't, non-political related events, the actual city, and a kinda progressive or liberal vibe.

So keep all of this in mind whenever you decide to make another visit to our Nation's Capital. Get to know the real D.C. and you will leave with a very different opinion my friend. On that good note, travel safe and keep an open mind!

Note: Sorry people, not trying to mix up this debate intentionally, but I just felt that this needed to be addressed. So please, do carry on.

[ChiTownWonder]

while Toronto is more comparable to Chicago, it is more like the New York for canada because it is the largest city and has a lot of diversity.

[Graystorm331]

I happen to live in philly and just got done a week vacation to toronto. Phillidelphia has a alot more peopel in the streets. Toronto really has no really awesome things except the tower. We have many historical places and a very artistic atmosphere. Chigago is also a nice clean city but has alot of traffic.

[AJNEOA]

Originally Posted by Graystorm331

I happen to live in philly and just got done a week vacation to toronto. Phillidelphia has a alot more peopel in the streets. Toronto really has no really awesome things except the tower. We have many historical places and a very artistic atmosphere. Chigago is also a nice clean city but has alot of traffic.

I'll tell you what, this is an excellent summary of the three. Toronto with its tall towers and empty streets, Chicago with its stupid traffic. Philly for life!

[Atticman]

Originally Posted by Graystorm331

I happen to live in philly and just got done a week vacation to toronto. Phillidelphia has a alot more peopel in the streets. Toronto really has no really awesome things except the tower. We have many historical places and a very artistic atmosphere. Chigago is also a nice clean city but has alot of traffic.

Why did you spend a whole week vacationing in Toronto if there's nothing to see besides the CN Tower?

Yeah, 250,000 people live downtown but there are no people on the streets.

[DavePa]

Originally Posted by AJNEOA

I'll tell you what, this is an excellent summary of the three. Toronto with its tall towers and empty streets, Chicago with its stupid traffic. Philly for life!

Oh no .... another reopened thread with a certain city in. But really, on traffic? It is a universal trait for American cities ...with all the negative comments on their traffic. I even remember reading in the Philly forum, on its expressways with some hated ones for differing reasons too. Its ridicules to use against one of these cities? Unless one really has a much better traffic and expressway situation. The other quoted post also said CLEAN for Chicago. One city in this list might not resemble that remark quite as much? But that still is subjective in the end.

This isn't a poll thread either. So post will be all over depending on which city ... one is boasting for. There are reasons to prefer each of these cities. But stats and opinions will just keep going back and forth. I might prefer one city for reasons A,B,C. But recognize another also for D,E,F too. Guess I will merely defend or correct comments on cities, that I disagree with if posted. Over being on the offensive for any city. Some posters I expect to totally be in boast mode for one city in the mix .... especially. We shell see?

[Trafalgar Law]

Toronto and Chicago are comparable. They aren't really anything alike at ground level at all and culturally are very very different cities, there is a strong foreign component to Toronto that Chicago does not have a similar feel for (especially Chinese and Indian). However, they are comparable. Two cities with similar case studies of superficial traits that are nearly identical, however, different strengths and weaknesses, which gives each city its plus points to different groups of people.