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I'm not saying SF has NO culture (although I think many cities surpass it in that regard)...but LA has far more. It has more museums than SF by far. And SF's biggest museum has been closed for a year now.
Location: Watching half my country turn into Gilead
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But if you extend SF's boundaries to include Oakland/San Jose/etc, you'll also get a more diluted scene, putting it then in the same boat as Los Angeles. And since most culture is transmitted over the air waves anyway, I fail to see how LA's size is a detriment in this area.
As far as being "cultured", I'd say that pop entertainment, if not entirely synonymous with culture, is a huge element of it. In this regard, Los Angeles, as the center of Hollywood and today's pop culture, has a clear lead over SF and pretty much every other city in the world. Add up LA's museum scene, fashion scene, amount of people in the creative arts (writers, dancers, actors, musicians, etc), hell even its porn scene, and it's clear that Los Angeles is dominant in this field (entertainment), even over NYC. What SF is to tech, LA is to entertainment. Does LA do tech? Sure. Does SF do entertainment? Sure. Are they comparable in output for those respectable industries (LA in tech, SF in entertainment)? Not at all. Only a misinformed person or one with an agenda would argue that LA isn't superior to SF in entertainment.
Now, if you want to debate that entertainment doesn't necessarily equal culture (see Las Vegas), then that's a different discussion. Personally, I'm inclined to think so, as Hollywood and the music industry has enough prestige to counter the more low brow aspects of pop culture. For more traditional culture, throw in all the museums LA has, its art galleries, and its architectural scene, and it's clear that LA isn't a debatable pony in the same vein as Las Vegas.
I'm not saying SF has NO culture (although I think many cities surpass it in that regard)...but LA has far more. It has more museums than SF by far. And SF's biggest museum has been closed for a year now.
^^^So because one of SF's largest museums has been closed for a $600M expansion but will reopen next year it somehow has less culture?
Also, one to talk much??? Looking at all of the top 100 exhibitions across multiple categories around the world, Philly doesn't appear once. And in terms of museum visitorship, even with SFMOMA being closed for half a year the attendance at the 3 fine arts museums that make up FAMSF (Fine Arts Museums SF - SFMOMA, De Young, Legion of Honor) are about 3x that of the PMA. Not to mention that doesn't even include such notable museums as the Asian Arts Museum.
Back to NYC vs SF, NYC is on a whole other level. But then SF is on a whole other level than Philly. In fact, in terms of this sort of thing, SF and LA are moreso on a similar level, with obviously a higher, denser concentration in tiny SF than expansive LA. Philly? NO
But if you extend SF's boundaries to include Oakland/San Jose/etc, you'll also get a more diluted scene, putting it then in the same boat as Los Angeles. And since most culture is transmitted over the air waves anyway, I fail to see how LA's size is a detriment in this area.
As far as being "cultured", I'd say that pop entertainment, if not entirely synonymous with culture, is a huge element of it. In this regard, Los Angeles, as the center of Hollywood and today's pop culture, has a clear lead over SF and pretty much every other city in the world. Add up LA's museum scene, fashion scene, amount of people in the creative arts (writers, dancers, actors, musicians, etc), hell even its porn scene, and it's clear that Los Angeles is dominant in this field (entertainment), even over NYC. What SF is to tech, LA is to entertainment. Does LA do tech? Sure. Does SF do entertainment? Sure. Are they comparable in output for those respectable industries (LA in tech, SF in entertainment)? Not at all. Only a misinformed person or one with an agenda would argue that LA isn't superior to SF in entertainment.
Now, if you want to debate that entertainment doesn't necessarily equal culture (see Las Vegas), then that's a different discussion. Personally, I'm inclined to think so, as Hollywood and the music industry has enough prestige to counter the more low brow aspects of pop culture. For more traditional culture, throw in all the museums LA has, its art galleries, and its architectural scene, and it's clear that LA isn't a debatable pony in the same vein as Las Vegas.
I'd agree with all of that. But what Hawaii4evr was inferring was high culture. And he brought up museums. And while SF has the more "world class" scene, Oakland, San Jose and a few parts in between have their own options. Oakland has a lot of what SF has on a smaller, more "local" scale. Same for San Jose. Not *every* single museum or cultural option is in SF, though clearly the best and most reputable are.
^^^So because one of SF's largest museums has been closed for a $600M expansion but will reopen next year it somehow has less culture?
Also, one to talk much??? Looking at all of the top 100 exhibitions across multiple categories around the world, Philly doesn't appear once. And in terms of museum visitorship, even with SFMOMA being closed for half a year the attendance at the 3 fine arts museums that make up FAMSF (Fine Arts Museums SF - SFMOMA, De Young, Legion of Honor) are about 3x that of the PMA. Not to mention that doesn't even include such notable museums as the Asian Arts Museum.
Back to NYC vs SF, NYC is on a whole other level. But then SF is on a whole other level than Philly. In fact, in terms of this sort of thing, SF and LA are moreso on a similar level, with obviously a higher, denser concentration in tiny SF than expansive LA. Philly? NO
Quit trying so hard and talking out of your a**
Yea, I don't see how a museum being closed for renovation and improvement is a bad thing.
NYC is on a whole other level. SF is about where Philly and maybe a half dozen to a dozen or so other US cities/metros where that level's internal ranking would be dependent on how you're weighing different factors. The only weird ones on that level, depending on what factors are being considered are LA and DC.
A museum match up between the Bay Area and Tri-State Area would be totes fun for everyone. I would love to see how that one gets spun.
^^^So because one of SF's largest museums has been closed for a $600M expansion but will reopen next year it somehow has less culture?
Also, one to talk much??? Looking at all of the top 100 exhibitions across multiple categories around the world, Philly doesn't appear once. And in terms of museum visitorship, even with SFMOMA being closed for half a year the attendance at the 3 fine arts museums that make up FAMSF (Fine Arts Museums SF - SFMOMA, De Young, Legion of Honor) are about 3x that of the PMA. Not to mention that doesn't even include such notable museums as the Asian Arts Museum.
Back to NYC vs SF, NYC is on a whole other level. But then SF is on a whole other level than Philly. In fact, in terms of this sort of thing, SF and LA are moreso on a similar level, with obviously a higher, denser concentration in tiny SF than expansive LA. Philly? NO
Quit trying so hard and talking out of your a**
Hawaii is just regurgitating what he hears, he has no clue what he's talking about.
^^^So because one of SF's largest museums has been closed for a $600M expansion but will reopen next year it somehow has less culture?
^Legit point.^
Now. I realize this a NYC vs. SF thread, But I just want to clear up this bit of disinformation, then I will duck back out of the thread. Would be happy to debate it further over in the recent Philly/SF thread, in order to keep this one from turning into a bigger mess than it already is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonelitist
And in terms of museum visitorship, even with SFMOMA being closed for half a year the attendance at the 3 fine arts museums that make up FAMSF (Fine Arts Museums SF - SFMOMA, De Young, Legion of Honor) are about 3x that of the PMA. Not to mention that doesn't even include such notable museums as the Asian Arts Museum.
Actually, if you want to get technical, I did a quick check: FAMSF did about 1.7 million visitors for the last year I can find numbers. PMA did (I think) about 640,000. Last I checked, the Barnes was up over 400,000 a year. The Rodin generally does about 50-60,000 I believe. Couldn't find numbers for PAFA, but I'd wager they're at least the equivalent of the Rodin. Not to mention the Franklin Institute, The Academy of Natural Sciences, etc. All of those museums are within a few blocks of each other, and part of the Parkway Museum District. I'm quite certain that the attendance of the PMA, The Barnes, the Rodin, and PAFA alone is at worst only marginally less than that of the FAMSF group. Not to mention the other major attractions on the Pkwy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonelitist
Back to NYC vs SF, NYC is on a whole other level.
Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonelitist
But then SF is on a whole other level than Philly.
Now. I realize this a NYC vs. SF thread, But I just want to clear up this bit of disinformation, then I will duck back out of the thread. Would be happy to debate it further over in the recent Philly/SF thread, in order to keep this one from turning into a bigger mess than it already is.
Actually, if you want to get technical, I did a quick check: FAMSF did about 1.7 million visitors for the last year I can find numbers. PMA did (I think) about 640,000. Last I checked, the Barnes was up over 400,000 a year. The Rodin generally does about 50-60,000 I believe. Couldn't find numbers for PAFA, but I'd wager they're at least the equivalent of the Rodin. Not to mention the Franklin Institute, The Academy of Natural Sciences, etc. All of those museums are within a few blocks of each other, and part of the Parkway Museum District. I'm quite certain that the attendance of the PMA, The Barnes, the Rodin, and PAFA alone is at worst only marginally less than that of the FAMSF group. Not to mention the other major attractions on the Pkwy.
Agreed.
In your opinion.
No comment.
Well if you want to venture to smaller arts museums and the science museums, SF has those, too (in fact, a few large ones in the science category...I like Franklin Institute better than say the Cal Academy or the Exploratorium, but I like the programming for young adults better at SF's museums, and in this case neither city competes with what NYC, Chicago, or DC have to offer). Also, the 1.7 million visitors at FAMSF includes a museum that was shut down for half of last year, all of this year, and half to all of next year. It does not include Asian Arts Museum, which has an average annual attendance of ~300,000 (picture above for scale/architecture of SF's 4th largest art museum).
Now back to NYC vs SF. SF will never compete with New York in terms of museums or cultural venues in terms of scale and offerings. SF may have a few things that are really good that compete with NYC's best (for instance, the opera), but it will never have the amount of offerings NYC has. Ever.
Well if you want to venture to smaller arts museums and the science museums, SF has those, too (in fact, a few large ones in the science category...I like Franklin Institute better than say the Cal Academy or the Exploratorium, but I like the programming for young adults better at SF's museums, and in this case neither city competes with what NYC, Chicago, or DC have to offer). Also, the 1.7 million visitors at FAMSF includes a museum that was shut down for half of last year, all of this year, and half to all of next year. It does not include Asian Arts Museum, which has an average annual attendance of ~300,000 (picture above for scale/architecture of SF's 4th largest art museum).
Now back to NYC vs SF. SF will never compete with New York in terms of museums or cultural venues in terms of scale and offerings. SF may have a few things that are really good that compete with NYC's best (for instance, the opera), but it will never have the amount of offerings NYC has. Ever.
Nobody can stack up to NYC, in most categories. No shame in that. For what it's worth, in IMO, SF/Philly are a coin flip on Arts/Culture (skyline, too, but that's a whole 'nother thing. They were debating that on the other thread last I checked). I'm off of this thread before it gets even more off-topic. Work to do, but I'll be on Philly/SF later.
Well if you want to venture to smaller arts museums and the science museums, SF has those, too (in fact, a few large ones in the science category...I like Franklin Institute better than say the Cal Academy or the Exploratorium, but I like the programming for young adults better at SF's museums, and in this case neither city competes with what NYC, Chicago, or DC have to offer). Also, the 1.7 million visitors at FAMSF includes a museum that was shut down for half of last year, all of this year, and half to all of next year. It does not include Asian Arts Museum, which has an average annual attendance of ~300,000 (picture above for scale/architecture of SF's 4th largest art museum).
Now back to NYC vs SF. SF will never compete with New York in terms of museums or cultural venues in terms of scale and offerings. SF may have a few things that are really good that compete with NYC's best (for instance, the opera), but it will never have the amount of offerings NYC has. Ever.
True, but SF is not lacking in any way, shape or form as far as cultural and arts amenities.
Same goes for Philly and any other Top 10 CSAs.
NYC just has way more.
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