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I think people need to redefine urbanity if we are simply equating it with highrises. Crystal City and Pentagon city are good examples of Transit Oriented Development, but good urbanity they're not. Unless you like walking through dead plazas at 7PM on a weekday.
I already provided that answer when it comes to areas outside the city limits but when it comes to areas within city limits, areas like University City and Templetown fit those qualities perfectly.
University City is apart of Philly's core so it's not an outside core downtown like the ones in D.C. Kidphilly defined the core already. University City was added to Center City, without it being added to Center City, Philly's core is diminished pretty substantially. Are you saying University City shouldn't be included with Center City when going up against D.C.'s core? University City was added to Center City I believe to give Philly a fighting chance against the D.C. urban core footprint. You may want to check with Kidphilly to see what he thinks should be included though.
nyc, la, sf, san diego, chicago, baltimore, st louis, kansas city, milwaukee, minneapolis, dallas, houston, austin, portland, seattle, atlanta, providence, boston, newark, philadelphia, new orleans, sacramento, denver, cincinatti, cleveland, oakland, columbus, pittsburgh, nashville, miami, etc. etc.
I agree that your suburbs are more urban than others suburbs, but they are also ... surrounded by suburban development.
LOL....umm no.
Couple things.....
Subway access?
Subway Frequency?
Amount of parking lots?
Population Density?
You are kidding right? Take Atlanta for instance, the Entire Metro Area of Atlanta doesn't have a census tract with a higher population density than the highest census tracts in the suburb Silver Spring!
You're really trying to talk about single family homes? LOL....the following:
I think people need to redefine urbanity if we are simply equating it with highrises. Crystal City and Pentagon city are good examples of Transit Oriented Development, but good urbanity they're not. Unless you like walking through dead plazas at 7PM on a weekday.
Pentagon City and Crystal City are in the middle of major redevelopment. They will be vibrant very soon. And you already know what is happening in the places you didn't name. Those places already have tracts with population densities over 40,000 people per square mile and some close to 50,000 people per square mile if not over.
If you limit the qualifications of a successful downtown to those 4 categories, and ignore everything else that makes a place vibrant, you can make any place look better in your favor. You've established subway access and dense housing within the very center, all are great qualities to have, but are not neccessary in creating a vibrant downtown.
Lets talk about the aspects of downtowns, the things to see and do that keep people visiting, keep the streets alive and vibrant: Restaurants, Stores, services and attractions (museums, theatres, parks, places of interest, etc). Fortunately, Yelp has a feature that lets you measure how many are in a particular area, including a 1 mile walking distance. For the purposes of comparison, I'll limit this to shopping and restaurants, because there's too many other categories.
Here's whats in a 1 square mile walking area of Silver Spring, MD
Silver Spring
Restaurants - 157
Shopping - 251
A sampling of other cities you mentioned
Milwaukee, WI
Restaurants - 377
Shopping - 342
Nashville, TN
Restaurants - 482
Shopping - 394
Here are some other cities not mentioned:
Madison, WI
Restaurants - 314
Shopping - 224
Savannah, GA
Restaurants - 249
Shopping - 293
Indianapolis, IN
Restaurants - 374
Shopping - 286
Santa Monica, CA
Restaurants - 257
Shopping - 676
Evanston, IL
Restaurants - 172
Shopping - 263
I don't know why would you think that downtown Silver Spring would be comparable to Atlanta or Portland, both centers of metropolitan areas over 3 Million, but here they are nonetheless.
Atlanta
Restaurants - 714
Shopping - 1071
Portland, OR
Restaurants - 1062
Shopping - 1137
Like I said, its good for a suburban downtown, and great that its a TOD, and its comparable to a lot of smaller downtowns in the US, especially the ones that aren't that healthy, but its pretty pompous to say its bigger than all but 12?
If you limit the qualifications of a successful downtown to those 4 categories, and ignore everything else that makes a place vibrant, you can make any place look better in your favor. You've established subway access and dense housing within the very center, all are great qualities to have, but are not neccessary in creating a vibrant downtown.
Lets talk about the aspects of downtowns, the things to see and do that keep people visiting, keep the streets alive and vibrant: Restaurants, Stores, services and attractions (museums, theatres, parks, places of interest, etc). Fortunately, Yelp has a feature that lets you measure how many are in a particular area, including a 1 mile walking distance. For the purposes of comparison, I'll limit this to shopping and restaurants, because there's too many other categories.
Here's whats in a 1 square mile walking area of Silver Spring, MD
Silver Spring
Restaurants - 157
Shopping - 251
A sampling of other cities you mentioned
Milwaukee, WI
Restaurants - 377
Shopping - 342
Nashville, TN
Restaurants - 482
Shopping - 394
Here are some other cities not mentioned:
Madison, WI
Restaurants - 314
Shopping - 224
Savannah, GA
Restaurants - 249
Shopping - 293
Indianapolis, IN
Restaurants - 374
Shopping - 286
Santa Monica, CA
Restaurants - 257
Shopping - 676
Evanston, IL
Restaurants - 172
Shopping - 263
I don't know why would you think that downtown Silver Spring would be comparable to Atlanta or Portland, both centers of metropolitan areas over 3 Million, but here they are nonetheless.
Atlanta
Restaurants - 714
Shopping - 1071
Portland, OR
Restaurants - 1062
Shopping - 1137
Like I said, its good for a suburban downtown, and great that its a TOD, and its comparable to a lot of smaller downtowns in the US, especially the ones that aren't that healthy, but its pretty pompous to say its bigger than all but 12?
I think you are mistaking what is being argued here. This thread and discussion is not about amenities. It's about urban built form. Things like population density, built form (building street relationship), rapid transit access and frequency, walkability, and urban design. If you go back and read, nobody is talking about museums, restaurants, or cultural attractions. That is for another thread and let's be honest here, you are talking about Washington D.C. which is a peer to NYC, LA, and Chicago etc. when talking about cultural offerings. D.C. doesn't compete with the lower tiered cities you are listing.
Give me Midtown Atlanta over any of those DC satellite cities anyday lmao.
From a cultural amenities and livability standpoint, I agree with you. This, however, is talking about places to live that are outside of the core of D.C. that still give the option for urban living. D.C. is expensive and many people that want an urban lifestyle but can't afford the core of the city live outside of the city proper. D.C. is one of the few cities that offers this level of urbanity outside of the core. In most other cities, you would have no option like these satellite cities outside of their actual downtown's and Atlanta is one of those examples.
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