Philadelphia Vs. Washington D.C. Which is more urban/dense (best, state)

[RightonWalnut]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

I doubt D.C. remains behind Baltimore if it's behind Baltimore at all in 2013.

Downtown D.C. Development:

The Residences at City Center (216 Units Under Construction)
Lyric (234 Units Under Construction)
443-459 Eye Street (174 Units Under Construction)
460 New York Avenue (63 Units Under Construction)
West End Library & Residences (164 Units About to Break Ground)
Yale West (218 Units Delivered)
Meridian at Mount Vernon Square (390 Units Phase Two Under Construction)
450 K Street (233 Units Under Construction)
CityCenterDC (rental) (458 Units Under Construction)
West End Fire Station & Residences (52 Units About to Break Ground)
Meridian at Mt. Vernon Triangle (390 Units Phase One Delivered)

Total Units Under Construction/Delivered/About to Break Ground: 2,592 Units

I love seeing all the new projects you post in D.C. There are some really great midrise developments going on in DC.

Here are some projects in Philadelphia:


Center City, Philadelphia

2116 Chestnut- 34 floors- 379 feet- completed this month- residential/retail- 321 units
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...05815693_n.jpg

1919 Market- 28 floors- 367 feet- approved- breaking ground this fall- residential/retail- 278 units
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.n...79540471_n.jpg

1213 Walnut- 26 floors- 294 feet- approved-residential/retail- 299 units
http://www.ten-arquitectos.com/publicaciones/58/1.1.jpg

Family Court Building- 15 floors- 265 feet- construction- office/courts
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--PFgovjGzF.../Picture+4.png

Edgewater II- 22 floors- 260 feet- approved- residential- 290 units
http://www.realen.com/gallery/projects/edgewater/05.jpg

Penn Medicine at Washington Square- 12 floors- 260 feet- recently complete- office
https://sphotos-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/h...13985535_n.jpg

One Riverside- 21 floors- 249 feet- approved- residential/retail- 167 units
http://hiddencityphila.org/wp-conten...rside_ssb1.jpg

Renaissance Plaza- five 20 floors- 240 foot towers- approved- residential/retail- 1,411 units
http://planphilly.com/uploads/media_....752.360.c.png

1900 Arch- 14 floors- construction- residential/retail/office- 236 units
http://www.precisionrg.com/future_im...00_2_small.jpg

2040 Market- 13 floors- recently complete- residential/retail- 282 units
http://buildingphilly.com/wp-content...507-130450.jpg

Marina View- 11 floors- approved- residential/retail- 296 units
http://planphilly.com/uploads/media_....752.524.s.jpg

Rodin Square- 10 floors- approved- residential/retail- 293 units
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.n...98471063_n.jpg

The Granary- 9 floors- finishing up- residential/retail- 227 units
http://nakedphilly.com/wp-content/up...9/IMG_5986.jpg

The Sansom- 8 floors- finishing up- residential/retail- 104 units
http://hiddencityphila.org/wp-conten...013/02/HN2.jpg

Southstar Lofts- 7 floors- construction- residential/retail- 85 units
http://www.southstarlofts.com/userfi...19bb327fe2.jpg

John C Anderson Apartments- 6 floors- under construction- residential- 56 units
http://blog.philadelphiarealestate.c...0429320617.jpg

410 Front- 5 floors- construction- residential- 69 units
https://www.tollbrothers.com/models/...K_NE_1_920.jpg

Total Center City units coming online- 4,414
*not including smaller lowrise and rowhome projects which are adding a couple hundred more to CC


University City

Cira Centre South- 40 floors- 600+ feet- approved- about to sign second tenant to start construction- office
https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/...44085603_n.jpg

The Evo- under construction- 33 floors- 407 feet- residential/retail- 370 units
http://hiddencityphila.org/wp-conten..._riverview.jpg

3601 Market- 28 floors- 320 feet- breaking ground this month- residential/retail- 375 units
http://southernland.com/wp-content/u.../09/Phili2.jpg

CHOP Buerger Center for Pediatric Care- 14 floors- 292 feet- construction- medical
http://hiddencityphila.org/wp-conten...atric-Care.jpg

Lancaster Square- 25 floors- 279 feet- breaking ground this month- residential/retail- 290 residential units
http://philadelphiaheights.files.wor..._752_584_s.jpg

38th and Chestnut- 25 floors- 278 feet- breaking ground this month- residential/retail- 280 units
http://philadelphiaheights.files.wor..._752_849_s.jpg

Drexel LeBow College of Business- 13 floors- 212 feet- completed this month- academic
http://drexelmasterplan.files.wordpr.../04/lcob-5.jpg

Chestnut Square- 19 floors- 210 feet- completed this month- residential/retail- 220 units
http://drexel.edu/~/media/Images/now...re%20crop.ashx

3737 Market- 13 floors- under construction- office/medical
http://blog.philadelphiarealestate.c...looking-NW.jpg

PCAM South Tower- 12 floors- under construction- office/medical
http://www.facilities.upenn.edu/site...ordan-9-13.jpg

Wistar Institute- 8 floors- under construction- office/medical
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-s92m7YCSXZ...Picture+18.png

4224 Baltimore- 10 floors- approved- residential/retail- 92 units
http://blog.philadelphiarealestate.c...-baltimore.jpg

Hub 3939- 7 floors- approved- residential/retail-60 units
http://nakedphilly.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/29927_rendering_2f.jpg

Hill Square- 7 floors- residential- approved- 191 units
http://nakedphilly.com/wp-content/up...e_cd_copyf.jpg

Total University City units coming online- 1,878
*not including smaller lowrise and rowhome projects which are adding a couple hundred more to UC

[kidphilly]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

Yeah. That's about right.

Right now, the goal is to push more of that type of development to the east. 7th Street is getting some condo buildings that are pretty high for DC standards (higher than the ones you'll see pretty much anywhere else in the city). You'll also see it more around Union Station and H Street as well as a big condo boom around Chinatown.

But those neighborhoods just won't feel the same, imo. There's something about a neighborhood full of 1920s and 1930s apartment buildings that feels different from a neighborhood full of condo buildings circa 2011.

I saw what were seemingly tall (by DC Standards) projects going up along NY Ave when was down there last month


In terms of the map, the stretch up past Cleveland Park to me doesnt feel all that urban (though pretty nice and again great red line Metro access and quick commute DT not to mention Rock Creek park proximity a plus), really to me that area feels more like the Main Line outside Philly actually. By extension Old Town in Alexandria feels like a more urban part.

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

I saw what were seemingly tall (by DC Standards) projects going up along NY Ave when was down there last month


In terms of the map, the stretch up past Cleveland Park to me doesnt feel all that urban (though pretty nice and again great red line Metro access and quick commute DT not to mention Rock Creek park proximity a plus), really to me that area feels more like the Main Line outside Philly actually. By extension Old Town in Alexandria feels like a more urban part.

Yeah. Agree on all points.

[MDAllstar]

Originally Posted by Summersm343

I love seeing all the new projects you post in D.C. There are some really great midrise developments going on in DC.

Here are some projects in Philadelphia:


Center City, Philadelphia

2116 Chestnut- 34 floors- 379 feet- completed this month- residential/retail- 321 units
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...05815693_n.jpg

1919 Market- 28 floors- 367 feet- approved- breaking ground this fall- residential/retail- 278 units
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.n...79540471_n.jpg

1213 Walnut- 26 floors- 294 feet- approved-residential/retail- 299 units
http://www.ten-arquitectos.com/publicaciones/58/1.1.jpg

Family Court Building- 15 floors- 265 feet- construction- office/courts
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--PFgovjGzF.../Picture+4.png

Edgewater II- 22 floors- 260 feet- approved- residential- 290 units
http://www.realen.com/gallery/projects/edgewater/05.jpg

Penn Medicine at Washington Square- 12 floors- 260 feet- recently complete- office
https://sphotos-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/h...13985535_n.jpg

One Riverside- 21 floors- 249 feet- approved- residential/retail- 167 units
http://hiddencityphila.org/wp-conten...rside_ssb1.jpg

Renaissance Plaza- five 20 floors- 240 foot towers- approved- residential/retail- 1,411 units
http://planphilly.com/uploads/media_....752.360.c.png

1900 Arch- 14 floors- construction- residential/retail/office- 236 units
http://www.precisionrg.com/future_im...00_2_small.jpg

2040 Market- 13 floors- recently complete- residential/retail- 282 units
http://buildingphilly.com/wp-content...507-130450.jpg

Marina View- 11 floors- approved- residential/retail- 296 units
http://planphilly.com/uploads/media_....752.524.s.jpg

Rodin Square- 10 floors- approved- residential/retail- 293 units
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.n...98471063_n.jpg

The Granary- 9 floors- finishing up- residential/retail- 227 units
http://nakedphilly.com/wp-content/up...9/IMG_5986.jpg

The Sansom- 8 floors- finishing up- residential/retail- 104 units
http://hiddencityphila.org/wp-conten...013/02/HN2.jpg

Southstar Lofts- 7 floors- construction- residential/retail- 85 units
http://www.southstarlofts.com/userfi...19bb327fe2.jpg

John C Anderson Apartments- 6 floors- under construction- residential- 56 units
http://blog.philadelphiarealestate.c...0429320617.jpg

410 Front- 5 floors- construction- residential- 69 units
https://www.tollbrothers.com/models/...K_NE_1_920.jpg

Total Center City units coming online- 4,414
*not including smaller lowrise and rowhome projects which are adding a couple hundred more to CC


University City

Cira Centre South- 40 floors- 600+ feet- approved- about to sign second tenant to start construction- office
https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/...44085603_n.jpg

The Evo- under construction- 33 floors- 407 feet- residential/retail- 370 units
http://hiddencityphila.org/wp-conten..._riverview.jpg

3601 Market- 28 floors- 320 feet- breaking ground this month- residential/retail- 375 units
http://southernland.com/wp-content/u.../09/Phili2.jpg

CHOP Buerger Center for Pediatric Care- 14 floors- 292 feet- construction- medical
http://hiddencityphila.org/wp-conten...atric-Care.jpg

Lancaster Square- 25 floors- 279 feet- breaking ground this month- residential/retail- 290 residential units
http://philadelphiaheights.files.wor..._752_584_s.jpg

38th and Chestnut- 25 floors- 278 feet- breaking ground this month- residential/retail- 280 units
http://philadelphiaheights.files.wor..._752_849_s.jpg

Drexel LeBow College of Business- 13 floors- 212 feet- completed this month- academic
http://drexelmasterplan.files.wordpr.../04/lcob-5.jpg

Chestnut Square- 19 floors- 210 feet- completed this month- residential/retail- 220 units
http://drexel.edu/~/media/Images/now...re%20crop.ashx

3737 Market- 13 floors- under construction- office/medical
http://blog.philadelphiarealestate.c...looking-NW.jpg

PCAM South Tower- 12 floors- under construction- office/medical
http://www.facilities.upenn.edu/site...ordan-9-13.jpg

Wistar Institute- 8 floors- under construction- office/medical
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-s92m7YCSXZ...Picture+18.png

4224 Baltimore- 10 floors- approved- residential/retail- 92 units
http://blog.philadelphiarealestate.c...-baltimore.jpg

Hub 3939- 7 floors- approved- residential/retail-60 units
http://nakedphilly.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/29927_rendering_2f.jpg

Hill Square- 7 floors- residential- approved- 191 units
http://nakedphilly.com/wp-content/up...e_cd_copyf.jpg

Total University City units coming online- 1,878
*not including smaller lowrise and rowhome projects which are adding a couple hundred more to UC

Center City is really building up. D.C. will never have a neighborhood like Center City because of height limits. I don't add rowhouse conversion either. There are around 5-10 conversion's a week here. Almost every rowhouse in the core will probably eventually be multi-family so I don't bother keeping track of those. D.C. will just have to infill and build as many midrise neighborhoods as possible. Here is what is happening in Shaw:

Shaw Development:

The Lima (31 Units)
1250 9th Street (70 Units)
7th Flats at Progression Place (205 Units)
CityMarket at O (condo) (145 Units)
The Cardozo (31 Units)
Blagden Alley Residences (87 Units)
P Street Residences (65 Units)
JBG Florida Avenue (242 Units)
CityMarket at O (rental) (400 Units)
Jefferson at Market Place (287 Units)
The JBG Cos. hopes to break ground by late September on its redevelopment of the former Atlantic Plumbing and Supply site by Eighth and V streets NW - Washington Business Journal (375 Units)
MRP Wins Bid to Develop 965 Florida Avenue | MRP Realty (300+ Unit Building)
DC Selects Team to Re-Develop Shaw’s Parcel 42 (105 Units)

Shaw Development: 2,343 Units

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

Center City is really building up. D.C. will never have a neighborhood like Center City because of height limits. I don't add rowhouse conversion either. There are around 5-10 conversion's a week here. Almost every rowhouse in the core will probably eventually be multi-family so I don't bother keeping track of those. D.C. will just have to infill and build as many midrise neighborhoods as possible.

People have to convert to multi-unit. That's the only way some people can afford the mortgages on those homes.

[RightonWalnut]

Originally Posted by grapico

This... and even when walking around somewhere like Adams Morgan, the size of the street widths, size of the big houses and overall area is more spread out feeling and leafy than what you'll find in Philadelphia. Definitely more of a cozy neighborhood vibe.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Adams...05.23,,0,-2.11

Philadelphia has similar areas.

Spruce Hill- West Philadelphia
http://goo.gl/maps/nGxRG

Garden Court- West Philadelphia
http://goo.gl/maps/6DtAM

Clark Park- West Philadelphia
http://goo.gl/maps/0dT3K

Powelton Village- West Philadelphia
http://goo.gl/maps/X85kY

East Falls- Northwest Philadelphia
http://goo.gl/maps/WIAoP

Germantown- Northwest Philadelphia
http://goo.gl/maps/vgq6y

Germantown- Northwest Philadelphia
http://goo.gl/maps/14cl3

West Mt. Airy- Northwest Philadelphia
http://goo.gl/maps/PEqR0

Chestnut Hill- Northwest Philadelphia
http://goo.gl/maps/RmDmQ

Fox Chase- Northeast Philadelphia
http://goo.gl/maps/TEFJ9

Tacony- Northeast Philadelphia
http://goo.gl/maps/DFCaG

Girard Estates- South Philadelphia
http://goo.gl/maps/aitdM

[MDAllstar]

Originally Posted by Duderino

There's no question that DC is developing at a rapid pace. Cranes have basically become a permanent fixture in the sky here.

However, even with the rapid pace of development -- so long as the city has height limits -- DC simply does not have the same development potential as Philadelphia.

For example, Downtown DC is essentially maxed-out in terms of land area, and it still comes nowhere near Center City Philadelphia in terms of residential density. A major part of that is because so much of DT DC is dedicated to low-rise office/employment use, but nevertheless, that detracts from high-density residential projects significantly. DC's commercial streets also tend to be a lot wider, which also detracts from structural density.

Philadelphia may not have the same amount of projects going on by comparison (although there are still plenty U/C and proposed), but the projects that it does have generally "pack more punch." Not to mention, Center City, while currently very dense, still has an enormous amount of redevelopment potential due to many underutilized properties and vacant buildings.

I'd definitely still rank DC as one of our country's top urban cores (especially as an employment center), but overall, the structural and residential density is limited compared to Philly.

You're correct that Center City has unlimited potential to develop. D.C. will have to build midrise neighborhoods over a large area because of height limits. We will never have a Center City type neighborhood though.

SW Waterfront/Capital Riverfront Development:

82 I Street SE (220 Units)
Randall School (550 Units)
Camden South Capitol (276 Units)
6th Street and Maine Avenue SW (109 Units of 2,250 total units)
The Wharf -- Parcel 4 (130 Units of 2,250 total units)
RiverFront on the Anacostia (200 Units)
909 Half Street (400 Units)
The Yards: 4th and Tingey SE (325 Units)
Sky House / Southwest Towers (530 Units)
Twelve12 (225 Units)
Town Center (401 Units)
Factory 202 (250 Units)
Akridge at Half Street (280 Units)
Half Street (340 Units)
90 V Street SW (97 Units)
Park Chelsea (433 Units)
Catching Up on Photos - Toll Brothers - JDLand.com: Near Southeast DC Redevelopment (250 Units)
Rumors of a New DC Whole Foods Gain Traction (400+ Units)

Capitol Riverfront Development: 7,427 Units

[MDAllstar]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

I saw what were seemingly tall (by DC Standards) projects going up along NY Ave when was down there last month


In terms of the map, the stretch up past Cleveland Park to me doesnt feel all that urban (though pretty nice and again great red line Metro access and quick commute DT not to mention Rock Creek park proximity a plus), really to me that area feels more like the Main Line outside Philly actually. By extension Old Town in Alexandria feels like a more urban part.

There are over 1,000 units under construction/or planned for that area. I don't know how much of a difference it will make on the feel of the area though.

[RightonWalnut]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

Center City is really building up. D.C. will never have a neighborhood like Center City because of height limits. I don't add rowhouse conversion either. There are around 5-10 conversion's a week here. Almost every rowhouse in the core will probably eventually be multi-family so I don't bother keeping track of those. D.C. will just have to infill and build as many midrise neighborhoods as possible. Here is what is happening in Shaw:

Shaw Development:

The Lima (31 Units)
1250 9th Street (70 Units)
7th Flats at Progression Place (205 Units)
CityMarket at O (condo) (145 Units)
The Cardozo (31 Units)
Blagden Alley Residences (87 Units)
P Street Residences (65 Units)
JBG Florida Avenue (242 Units)
CityMarket at O (rental) (400 Units)
Jefferson at Market Place (287 Units)
The JBG Cos. hopes to break ground by late September on its redevelopment of the former Atlantic Plumbing and Supply site by Eighth and V streets NW - Washington Business Journal (375 Units)
MRP Wins Bid to Develop 965 Florida Avenue | MRP Realty (300+ Unit Building)
DC Selects Team to Re-Develop Shaw’s Parcel 42 (105 Units)

Shaw Development: 2,343 Units

I love D.C. for it's height limit though. It's unique for an American City. Plus you the Metro could always build up areas like Arlington and Tysons corner. Even if the height limit was lifted for a section of Southeast DC.

A lot of rowhome have already been converted in Center City and the Core of the city. Now it is mostly new construction of rowhomes and lowrises:

I believe they are calling this American Lofts now- Olde Kensington (North Philly)
Another Huge Mixed-Use Development On the Way for South Kensington | NakedPhilly

Soko Lofts- Olde Kensington (North Philly)
Soko Lofts Would Transform Huge Lot in South Kensington | NakedPhilly

University Place- West Powelton (West Philly)
http://30universityplace.com/wp-cont.../2013/06/7.jpg

West Village- West Powelton (West Philly)
Redirect Notice

1701 Folson- Francisville (North Philly)
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Metropolis- Pennsport (South Philly)
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1221 S. Broad Street- Passyunk Square (South Philly)
http://blog.philadelphiarealestate.c...6-1024x682.jpg

The Exchange II- Francisville (North Philly)
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1833 Fairmount- Francisville (North Philly)
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The Azalea- Spruce Hill (West Philly)
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Brandywine Place- Spring Garden (North Philly)
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The Station- Manayunk (Northwest Philly)
http://media1.rent.com/p/the-station...-133560311.jpg

Onion Flats- Northern Liberties (North Philly)
http://www.metrohippie.com/resources.../thinflats.jpg

Ridge Flats- East Falls (Northwest Philly)
http://media.nbcphiladelphia.com/ima...+rendering.jpg

Stable Flats- Northern Liberties (North Philly)
http://blog.philadelphiarealestate.c...13/08/0033.jpg

Carpenter Square- Graduate Hospital (South Philly)
http://images04.olx.com/ui/4/50/82/f...914896936.jpeg

ReNewbold- Newbold (South Philly)
http://www.flyingkitemedia.com/galle...ldSite_INJ.jpg

12th and Lombard- Washington Square West (Center City)
Redirect Notice

17th and Wood- Franklintown (Center City)
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1236 Buttonwood- Loft District (Center City)
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19th and Poplar- Francisville (North Philly)
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Paseo Verde- Templetown (North Philly)
http://www.domusinc.net/data/mojoToo...0Rendering.jpg

Fairmount Gardens- Francisville (North Philly)
http://www.kitchenandassociates.com/...06-635x368.jpg

1424 Fairmount- Francisville (North Philly)
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Foundry Court- Northern Liberties (North Philly)
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National East- Old City (Center City)
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Liberties Gateway- Northern Liberties (North Philly)
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1244 Ridge- Spring Arts (North Philly)
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Lombard Esates- Rittenhouse Square (Center City)
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801 N. 2nd Street- Northern Liberties (North Philly)
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2400 South- Graduate Hospital (South Philly)
http://centercityteam.com/files/2011...uth-Street.jpg

Bloc 23- Graduate Hospital (South Philly)
http://hiddencityphila.org/wp-conten...-1-660x438.jpg

Bloc 24- Graduate Hospital (South Philly)
http://blog.philadelphiarealestate.c...rendering.jpeg

[grapico]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

Here's what I mean about Cleveland Park and Tenleytown, btw. You have a main drag that's pretty built up and urban looking like this.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=washi...12,244.37,,0,0

And then step away a block or two and wind up here.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=washi...57.34,,0,21.12

That's why I've always referred to that area of the city as suburban. It just has an urban veneer.

Reminds me of Evanston, decent DT area and central core but then straight to suburban houses.