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I actually think that HSR in California, as currently planned, would be transformative for our State's economy in an overwhelmingly positive way. While the SF-LA interconnection is most highly publicized, the NorCal and SoCal investments themselves would really expand regional transit infrastructure. In the Bay Area, that would mean faster and denser connections between Oakland & SJ, SF & Palo Alto & SJ, Sacramento and the Bay Area, Stockton and the Bay Area, and could turn the Stockton commute into something manageable.
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Originally Posted by GatsbyGatz
West Coast HSR is such a poor use of all that money. How about we use that money to help install public transportation in SoCal which is effing terrible? Everyone I know back in SoCal commutes at least an hour a day by car. No one uses public transit because good luck trying to take a freaking bus to work in SoCal; that fun venture will take you half a day. Sure, if you live in the city of LA proper, public transit is decent... but that doesn't help SoCal's sprawled-to-hell infrastructure. Public transit is a joke and this HSR is a pet project that is so blind to achieving something that would actually be a useful use of tax dollars.
Let's see which should have been given priority: a pet project chu-chu train connecting LA-SF for fun-sies, or attempting to fix one of the most sprawled out, auto-dependent metro areas in the US? Yeah, who cares about actual transportation within our metros; I want to take a train to Bakersfield!
All aboard the stupid train!
This project will connect the SF Valley to LA and encourage SoCal to expand the local systems to connect to HSR and transform the transit landscape. Imagine how much faster bus transit would be if SF Valley residents were taking the train into LA rather than driving? There is a great deal of transportation within our metros built into the HSR plan, its simply that the SF-LA leg is the most publicized. Take a look at the plan and tell me that you don't think that this could be the backbone of a truly healthy California public transit system.
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Originally Posted by nslander
I think that's a legitimate critique. But one of the problems with that approach is the risk of contentment with what essentially would be glorified commuter rail from LA to SD. There would be will less political pressure to fight the inevitable battles being fought right now, sadly necessary to start the connection from LA to SF. This is partly why the SF-Sacto leg will go last. Nobody wants the appearance of it being built to shuttle Sacramento politicians to their homes in the Bay Area, as we see in DC.
I've read and heard hundreds, literally hundreds, of different criticisms of this project, each with their respective proposed alternatives. The only way this thing ever gets built is when enough people understand their preference will not be met.
I think the initial leg would also be cheaper and could build momentum towards taking this project all the way to completion.
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Originally Posted by 18Montclair
Yes, I have long felt that separate Intra-SoCal and Intra-NorCal HSRs would have been better and move more people. As growth warranted, they could be connected somewhere in the middle, eventually, if it ever came to that.
LA/OC-SD-IE-LV would be a killer system imo.
There is a great deal of intra-SoCal and intra-NorCal rail enhancement in the HSR plan, and I think that the program, while very expensive, lets us have our cake (northern and southern systems) and eat it too (SF-LA).
I actually think that HSR in California, as currently planned, would be transformative for our State's economy in an overwhelmingly positive way. While the SF-LA interconnection is most highly publicized, the NorCal and SoCal investments themselves would really expand regional transit infrastructure. In the Bay Area, that would mean faster and denser connections between Oakland & SJ, SF & Palo Alto & SJ, Sacramento and the Bay Area, Stockton and the Bay Area, and could turn the Stockton commute into something manageable.
This project will connect the SF Valley to LA and encourage SoCal to expand the local systems to connect to HSR and transform the transit landscape. Imagine how much faster bus transit would be if SF Valley residents were taking the train into LA rather than driving? There is a great deal of transportation within our metros built into the HSR plan, its simply that the SF-LA leg is the most publicized. Take a look at the plan and tell me that you don't think that this could be the backbone of a truly healthy California public transit system.
I think the initial leg would also be cheaper and could build momentum towards taking this project all the way to completion.
There is a great deal of intra-SoCal and intra-NorCal rail enhancement in the HSR plan, and I think that the program, while very expensive, lets us have our cake (northern and southern systems) and eat it too (SF-LA).
Do you have a link to the plan? I have not read it and am interested to learn more. I'd like to see what kind of regional transportation it can provide to Southern California.
Do you have a link to the plan? I have not read it and am interested to learn more. I'd like to see what kind of regional transportation it can provide to Southern California.
More detailed information is available on the site. I don't dispute that it is a very expensive project, but California is a very expensive state for construction projects, and there are major project benefits for our economy in the long term.
The west coast is building legit high speed rail capable of actual high speeds. Sure, the NE has the Acela high speed rail line but it's not really high speed compared to other countries or what the west coast is building. The trains will travel over 200+ mph on the west coast high speed rail. It is the first of its kind in the U.S.
Japan is offering to loan the U.S. 4 billion dollars to help pay for part of the maglev line between D.C. and Baltimore. The plan is to eventually build it all the way to Boston. It would travel at a speed of over +310 mph and cut the trip from Baltimore to D.C. down to 15 minutes. The Japanese want to have the D.C. to Baltimore segment built before the next decade which would be by 2024.
Which coast would you say has the best plan for the future? Should the U.S. invest in maglev technology or continue with high speed rail? Thoughts?
High speed wheel on rail has speed limitations and high maintenance costs. The future is friction-free Maglev. Maglev is so fast it reduces the speed advantage of short-haul air travel, and is more environmentally friendly. The technology is advancing, and needs investment. Why not take up the offer from Japan?
For the NE corridor, why not just focus on making Acela Express a "true" high speed rail first. As it stands now, Acela barely averages 80 miles between Boston and DC (faster in some segments). It is still using existing rail track that has lots of bends and curves that are really unacceptable in a true HSR infrastructure. Do that first, increase the average speed to 150+ MPH , then we can maybe talk about other grand futuristic projects like Maglev. As of now, I am paying a 50% premium to ride Acela which is only 15-30 minutes faster than a conventional NE Regional train.
How fast would the train have to be going through densely populated central and northern NJ for that to happen?
It doesn't really matter how densely populated the area for Maglev is, since the tracks can only go either underground into a tunnel or have special metal hoods that act as gun silencers. Despite the train having no wheels and no rails, it still has a lot of noise going full speed and creates sonic booms going out of the tunnel. Also, they make sure people don't have exposure to maglev tracks and have special train entrances to board them, since the electromagnetic field from the tracks interferes with credit cards, pacemakers, laptops, etc.
Here is a Maglev track in Japan, they offer free rides to the general public now:
It doesn't really matter how densely populated the area for Maglev is, since the tracks can only go either underground into a tunnel or have special metal hoods that act as gun silencers. Despite the train having no wheels and no rails, it still has a lot of noise going full speed and creates sonic booms going out of the tunnel. Also, they make sure people don't have exposure to maglev tracks and have special train entrances to board them, since the electromagnetic field from the tracks interferes with credit cards, pacemakers, laptops, etc.
Here is a Maglev track in Japan, they offer free rides to the general public now:
Very good points. The above is the maglev in Shanghai. Top speed is about 430 km/hr (267 MPH) and the entire journey takes about 8 minutes only. The Chinese government actually debated and seriously considered building a longer Maglev line to nearby Hangzhou - the plan was approved in 2006 by the central government but was subsequently cancelled due to fierce public opposition by Shanghai residents. Also, in 2010, the Shanghai-Hangzhou High Speed Rail officially opened cutting the entire 124 mile journey down to a mere 45 minutes on HSR - the cost and economics of HSR immediately made the Maglev project not feasible, and large-scale Maglev construction was therefore permanently suspended in China for the foreseeable future in favor of the much more cost/energy effective HSR.
I have personally taken both the Shanghai Maglev and its HSR many times in the past, and I must say that HSR is a much smoother, more pleasant, and more economical ride than the Maglev for the ordinary passenger.
First/VIP Class cabin on the newest HSR models in China:
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The future is Maglev
