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I'm just calling it like I see it. But really, it could be worse; the city just has to take this experience, learn from it, and do a better job of getting it passed the next time.
I am just giving what I believe is the logical reason for the difference between the cities; Houston's "libertarianism" is really just complacency towards social injustices that can happen, due to most Houstonians never having experienced such problems, unlike citizens of Dallas and Atlanta.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
Those links debunked the prevailing thought that Prop 8 failed because of Black people, which is silly on its face. There aren't even enough Black people in California for that to be possible, and secondly, it's common knowledge that "Democrat" doesn't automatically mean "liberal." There are liberal Dems, conservative Dems, Blue Dog Dems, etc. At any rate, none of this even means anything in the absence of polling data in Houston, so you're basically jumping to conclusions about who voted and how they voted.
By jumping the gun and blaming minorities for the failure of HERO, that's essentially what you did here.
I should have been more specific; what I meant was, with Proposition 8, minorities did, in fact, contribute significantly to the vote against it. I did not mean to imply that they were the only reason the ordinance failed.
I am not blaming minorities for HERO's failure; how many times do I have to say this to you? Instead, it is more of a general response to the notion that this failure paints Houston as an intolerant, white, evangelical Christian town, with rampant conservatism; a lot of minorities in the city also voted against the bill. Thus, the failure isn't really much of a demonstration of the supposed rampant conservatism Houston has compared to Dallas/Atlanta as much as people would like to believe.
As far as polling data, the actual stats have yet to arrive, but, in the meantime, articles like this are around: NationalJournal
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
I'm not saying they are INtolerant, but there's absolutely no proof of tolerance here. This is why I said that if enough people didn't turn out to support this ordinance, then what you have is indifference--which, again, points to Houston as being more libertarian than liberal.
Again--INDIFFERENCE. Not tolerance, not intolerance, but indifference. That's exactly what this sounds like.
No, while they did not vote, many of those people do, in fact, care about LGBT rights, and are supportive of them. That, right there, is tolerance. It is a shame that turnout was very low amongst those people, and such a situation still reflects badly upon the city, but, at the same time, if you will not see those people acting discriminatory to LGBT people; rather, they will be found welcoming them with open arms.
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Originally Posted by bigstick
Are you serious, I think you have Atlanta confused with Birmingham and the Bull Connor escapades, or Memphis, Greensboro, not Atlanta.
Compared to Houston, Atlanta might as well have been Birmingham during that time.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
I'm just calling it like I see it. But really, it could be worse; the city just has to take this experience, learn from it, and do a better job of getting it passed the next time.
Now that the city knows what can happen during a stance of complacency, I'm sure that the next time around, which is soon, the supporters would be more driven to pursue the measure. Again, there is nothing innately different about the populace in Dallas/Atlanta vs Houston that would make them apparently more liberal than that of Houston's. In fact, Houston's demographics and economic status through history would suggest that it be the most liberal of the three. It takes a high-profile direct infringement of injustice to truly activate people to fighting such measures; Dallas and Atlanta have had such exposure. This outcome of HERO could have been Houston's exposure needed to unlock the true liberal clout Houston harbors.
So what I'm getting out of the Houston forum is that the religious folks got a hold of this, created a fear campaign on unisex bathrooms, and focused their energy in the results are what you got last night.
This is what I heard too! Religious folks and their silliness regarding "Uni-Sex" bathrooms! If you live in a house with other people you probably share a bathroom. I don't consider Houston to be a homophobic city.
This is what I heard too! Religious folks and their silliness regarding "Uni-Sex" bathrooms! If you live in a house with other people you probably share a bathroom. I don't consider Houston to be a homophobic city.
I mean let's be real. Transgenders/transsexuals are NOT going to be hanging out where these religious wackjobs do. I'm sure they basically have two entirely different worlds, except for the slight overlap in some workplaces.
I wouldn't go as far to say Houston is homophobic, but it's just less liberal than the other 3 on this list. I'm sure Houston looks like SF when compared to many other parts of Texas that aren't Dallas, Austin and San Antonio.
There really is nothing wrong with a city being libertarian. While I don't find Houston as liberal as Austin, I don't think it's far at all behind Dallas and especially San Antonio.
I mean let's be real. Transgenders/transsexuals are NOT going to be hanging out where these religious wackjobs do. I'm sure they basically have two entirely different worlds, except for the slight overlap in some workplaces.
I wouldn't go as far to say Houston is homophobic, but it's just less liberal than the other 3 on this list. I'm sure Houston looks like SF when compared to many other parts of Texas that aren't Dallas, Austin and San Antonio.
You will find less of these religious whack-jobs in Houston and its metro than you will in the San Antonio Metro and DFW. The ERO proposed in Houston extended further than the one San Antonio has; San Antonio's ERO excludes restrooms from it public accommodation list. That is not ideal in regards to providing rights for transgenders.
The ERO was voted down in Houston mainly because of lack of knowledge, fear, and plain uncomfort with the restroom aspect, not out of intolerance. The fake Houston was what you saw in election night, the real Houston is probably more liberal than even Austin is.
You will find less of these religious whack-jobs in Houston and its metro than you will in the San Antonio Metro and DFW. The ERO proposed in Houston extended further than the one San Antonio has; San Antonio's ERO excludes restrooms from it public accommodation list. That is not ideal in regards to providing rights for transgenders.
The ERO was voted down in Houston mainly because of lack of knowledge, fear, and plain uncomfort with the restroom aspect, not out of intolerance. The fake Houston was what you saw in election night, the real Houston is probably more liberal than even Austin is.
I don't but millions of people do, apparently -- including the 45,000 Houstonians who attend his Lakewood Church every weekend. It's the largest protestant congregation in the United States. Houston's 2nd Baptist Church, with weekly attendance of 25,000, is the largest Southern Baptist congregation in the United States. Houston's Windsor Village United Methodist Church is the largest UMC congregation in the United States.
In fact, there are 37 megachurches in Houston, and 11 are among the largest in the nation -- including SIX that are predominantly African-American: New Light Church, Fountain of Praise, Church Without Walls, Wheeler Avenue Baptist, Community of Faith and Champion Forest Baptist.
How much influence these churches have in Houston is a valid question.
You will find less of these religious whack-jobs in Houston and its metro than you will in the San Antonio Metro and DFW. The ERO proposed in Houston extended further than the one San Antonio has; San Antonio's ERO excludes restrooms from it public accommodation list. That is not ideal in regards to providing rights for transgenders.
The ERO was voted down in Houston mainly because of lack of knowledge, fear, and plain uncomfort with the restroom aspect, not out of intolerance. The fake Houston was what you saw in election night, the real Houston is probably more liberal than even Austin is.
Wow, thats a lot of BS for one post. Especially that last line. If you think Houston is much shorter on religious whack-jobs than DFW, you really havent spent enough time in Montgomery County.
You cannot back up one single thing that you just said with anything other than conjecture.
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