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Gunion, I didn't say "skewed," I'm acknowledging that you're going to have more of an insider perspective based on your circles and ties within the state, so your perspective is going to be vastly different from someone who's not from the state or have ties there since again, this thread is about "outside perception."
Like it or not, you're "in the circle" in this instance...I didn't grow up in Los Angeles or the Bay Area when I lived in California, but knew enough about the perception and perspectives of both due to their connections and ties my city had to both of those places, so I'm sure your perspective about the Texas cities will be of a similar fashion.
No, you're assuming that I have more of an insider perspective and, thus, a somehow skewed perception of how these cities are seen by people from out of state. I guess someone from El Paso would also be more of an expert on Houston than someone from New Orleans?
Don't get me wrong. I'm definitely familiar with both cities, but that has nothing to do with how I've observed the reputation of each.
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I can't speak for As Above, but historically, Houston has had more appeal for blacks who moved to Texas than Dallas did (I've never heard of articles talking about "Why Black Professionals are wary of moving to Houston"), but while the growth numbers/stats have changed drastically over the past 10-15 years, the perception still lags behind.
Again, I'm not trying to beat that dead horse of an article any further, but the title clearly focuses on "black professionals". I thought we had already established that Houston possibly being more appealing for a subset of the community does not make it more appealing to the whole community. Buppies are not the only blacks with an opinion.
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You keep trying to conflate the growth numbers with perception and reputation, which don't always reflect reality.
And you keep trying to establish an opinion as a universal truth with no solid evidence for it.
No way, everybody knows it's an American (Oklahoman) city first and foremost. The only major metro in the state that wasn't already established during the republic.
I would say Houston appeals more to international immigrants and African Americans. Every other demographic seems to gravitate towards Dallas.
I wouldn't say every other demographic prefers Dallas. The only demo that outright does is the white population.
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Originally Posted by kdogg817
How does it appeal more to African Americans when they roughly have the same number of black folks. It comes down more to preference. I’ve never been on that bandwagon Houston was better for blacks and I’ve been down there on many occasions and I’m still not convinced. Dallas has always in my opinion been the more outward of the two owning it has some problems. City-data will have you think there is some type of racial harmony down in Houston which is not the case. It was a Dallas news station that sought and got the release of Sandra Bland cellphone video from a incident that happened in the Houston area.
Houston definitely exports more of its pop culture than Dallas does. For example, look at Houston hip-hop versus Dallas hip-hop. With every generation, Houston produces a handful of people that become popular mainstream musicians for their era. Not only that, but Houston culture/sound has become entrenched in a couple of music genres (hip-hop/rap and some pop). You see "Astroworld" gear everywhere because of Travis Scott for example. A lot of your favorite rappers' rapper are underground artists from Houston. Nipsey Hussle was a huge Z-Ro fan, as another example.
Meanwhile with every generation, Dallas rappers try to stick around but are never long lasting, and hardly ever reach mainstream status. Yella Beezy being the only one in the last 15 years, and he only gained national popularity last year.
No, you're assuming that I have more of an insider perspective and, thus, a somehow skewed perception of how these cities are seen by people from out of state. I guess someone from El Paso would also be more of an expert on Houston than someone from New Orleans?
Don't get me wrong. I'm definitely familiar with both cities, but that has nothing to do with how I've observed the reputation of each.
If you think that's skewed, that's your perception. Don't get too "Frustrated" when another poster acknowledges your knowledge of the state and gives credit where credit is due. I may not always agree with your opinions and overall irascible and argumentative manner, but I know you usually know your stuff when it comes to a lot of the Lone Star State. As much as you've given your opinions and perspective on this board regarding life and experiences in Texas, you can't backpedal when someone acknowledges that, therefore I'm not assuming anything when I'm going by what you've written in your posts. Can't even give you props without you getting all "Frustrated" I see...And you mostly lived in San Antonio and the Golden Triangle IIRC, so you'd have far more knowledge about the goings on of other cities in the Texas Triangle than someone from El Paso would, so that wasn't the best analogy. You're better than that.
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Again, I'm not trying to beat that dead horse of an article any further, but the title clearly focuses on "black professionals". I thought we had already established that Houston possibly being more appealing for a subset of the community does not make it more appealing to the whole community. Buppies are not the only blacks with an opinion.
Never said that neither, so stop projecting. It was just a random anecdote, I was just saying that you don't hear those types of narratives about Houston like you do with Dallas. That doesn't even go into the more conservative reputation that Dallas has and all the connotations that come with that...I can acknowledge that the experience of a working-class/blue collar Black person will be different from that of a black professional and can listen to both perspectives. This isn't a zero-sum game or a one-or-the-other type of thing
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And you keep trying to establish an opinion as a universal truth with no solid evidence for it.
Never said it was a universal truth. I'm expressing my opinion just as you are. And again, this thread is about reputation and perception from outsiders, so there's always going to be anecdotes and perspectives that you may not necessarily agree with because they don't always reflect reality in real time. Because when all is said and done, this thread is about anecdotes and opinions. If this thread were about actual numbers and growth figures, you'd have more of a case.
You have your opinion, I have mine. Stop getting so "Frustrated" when people don't see things exactly as you do.
I wouldn't say every other demographic prefers Dallas. The only demo that outright does is the white population.
Houston definitely exports more of its pop culture than Dallas does. For example, look at Houston hip-hop versus Dallas hip-hop. With every generation, Houston produces a handful of people that become popular mainstream musicians for their era. Not only that, but Houston culture/sound has become entrenched in a couple of music genres (hip-hop/rap and some pop). You see "Astroworld" gear everywhere because of Travis Scott for example. A lot of your favorite rappers' rapper are underground artists from Houston. Nipsey Hussle was a huge Z-Ro fan, as another example.
Meanwhile with every generation, Dallas rappers try to stick around but are never long lasting, and hardly ever reach mainstream status. Yella Beezy being the only one in the last 15 years, and he only gained national popularity last year.
Yea but we talking about now. Yella Beezy got his shizzz straight from the mud and Travis Scott hooked up with a Kardashian and did a hit song with Drake. So you tell me which is more impressive.
Yes, I grew up in Texas but not in Dallas or Houston. I don't think it makes sense to say that my perspective is skewed simply because I just so happen to be from within the same state line as both cities. Like you, I am speaking as someone that has lived in and visited various parts of the U.S. Though I understand that I am technically not an outsider.
All of the above is anecdotal though, and entirely an issue of my experience vs. yours. But my basis for disagreeing with As Above's post was the fact that DFW has a faster growing black population that may even eclipse Houston's at some point. It simply doesn't make sense to claim that the latter has greater appeal when the stats are saying otherwise.
People definitely still listen to Screw. A lot of people like the newer music chopped and screwed too. There are a few mainstream artists that have whole chopped and screwed albums. Plus, the slower "Houston" sound is entrenched into pop culture now. Anytime a music beat slows down or chops up a bit, Houston comes to mind. Hell I've had people ask me what I was playing when I had my Screw tapes bumping out on the West Coast lol.
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Originally Posted by kdogg817
Yes, but times has changed. There are two chosen Texas cities that will lead the way in the future. That’s the Dallas metro and Austin metro. So yeah we need to rack up our numbers in the Dallas metro because Dallas=$$$ and that is in no disrespect to Houston. Houston location and it being flood prone hurts it. That’s why the majority of corporation outside of oil and gas ain’t checking for it. Dallas has some serious momentum right now. As quietly as it kept Dallas has created some separation between itself and Houston and I don’t see that changing. Dallas economy is more of a representation of what we do as black people.
Quietly in what way? Houston's economic output historically have been higher than DFW even with a smaller metro population. Only in recent years, when Houston had the worst energy bust in decades at the same time DFW has had it's greatest economic expansion since the WW2 suburban boom, has the DFW economic output been larger than Houston. There were a few years here and there where they've flip-flopped in the past, but this notion that DFW has pushed far ahead of Houston is boosterism talking. The reality is, DFW should look out for OKC and Kansas City (especially) in the future, as those metros are far less crowded, have more room, and can have very similar economies to DFW. Meanwhile, Houston has no equivalent like that.
There's a good thread going in the Dallas forum on the never-ending DFW suburban march. Now you have suburban cities like Frisco giving tax incentives to corporations based in a neighboring suburb (Plano) in order to have their HQ. When you start seeing things like that, what's to stop a company from moving to the next DFW instead?
The focus in Houston is more on the city than the suburbs, especially after Harvey. The difference in scale for urban Houston vs urban Dallas is starting to become very apparent. Dallas initially had a better urban build due to the smaller size, but the urban Houston has had an immense transformation in the last couple of years.
People definitely still listen to Screw. A lot of people like the newer music chopped and screwed too. There are a few mainstream artists that have whole chopped and screwed albums. Plus, the slower "Houston" sound is entrenched into pop culture now. Anytime a music beat slows down or chops up a bit, Houston comes to mind. Hell I've had people ask me what I was playing when I had my Screw tapes bumping out on the West Coast lol.
Quietly in what way? Houston's economic output historically have been higher than DFW even with a smaller metro population. Only in recent years, when Houston had the worst energy bust in decades at the same time DFW has had it's greatest economic expansion since the WW2 suburban boom, has the DFW economic output been larger than Houston. There were a few years here and there where they've flip-flopped in the past, but this notion that DFW has pushed far ahead of Houston is boosterism talking. The reality is, DFW should look out for OKC and Kansas City (especially) in the future, as those metros are far less crowded, have more room, and can have very similar economies to DFW. Meanwhile, Houston has no equivalent like that.
There's a good thread going in the Dallas forum on the never-ending DFW suburban march. Now you have suburban cities like Frisco giving tax incentives to corporations based in a neighboring suburb (Plano) in order to have their HQ. When you start seeing things like that, what's to stop a company from moving to the next DFW instead?
The focus in Houston is more on the city than the suburbs, especially after Harvey. The difference in scale for urban Houston vs urban Dallas is starting to become very apparent. Dallas initially had a better urban build due to the smaller size, but the urban Houston has had an immense transformation in the last couple of years.
But we’re talking about now and not the past. Downtown Dallas East Quarter, Midtown, City Place, and West Dallas Trinity Groves are all set to boom in the coming years. Dallas is currently in talks with Uber for a huge office campus that will bring thousands of jobs to Downtown Dallas East Quarters. Not to mention Dallas already has an established rail system that will come in handy as the city continues to go vertical. Also DFW just made a major power move by approving 7 billion dollar terminal F to further increase international travel.
If you think that's skewed, that's your perception. Don't get too "Frustrated" when another poster acknowledges your knowledge of the state and gives credit where credit is due. I may not always agree with your opinions and overall irascible and argumentative manner, but I know you usually know your stuff when it comes to a lot of the Lone Star State. As much as you've given your opinions and perspective on this board regarding life and experiences in Texas, you can't backpedal when someone acknowledges that, therefore I'm not assuming anything when I'm going by what you've written in your posts. Can't even give you props without you getting all "Frustrated" I see...And you mostly lived in San Antonio and the Golden Triangle IIRC, so you'd have far more knowledge about the goings on of other cities in the Texas Triangle than someone from El Paso would, so that wasn't the best analogy. You're better than that.
Of course I've made it known throughout my many posts that I know both cities. The assumption on your part is that me being a Texan means I necessarily have a different perspective than someone who is from outside the state. Including yourself: a non-Texan that apparently has quite a bit of knowledge himself about both cities. Clearly, I see nuances between both cities, but so do you and Huntsville apparently, so what's the difference? Kind of seems like you're just splitting hairs.
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Never said that either, so stop projecting. It was just a random anecdote, I was just saying that you don't hear those types of narratives about Houston like you do with Dallas. That doesn't even go into the more conservative reputation that Dallas has and all the connotations that come with that...I can acknowledge that the experience of a working-class/blue collar Black person will be different from that of a black professional and can listen to both perspectives. This isn't a zero-sum game or a one-or-the-other type of thing...
Never said it was a universal truth. I'm expressing my opinion just as you are. And again, this thread is about reputation and perception from outsiders, so there's always going to be anecdotes and perspectives that you may not necessarily agree with because they don't always reflect reality in real time. Because when all is said and done, this thread is about anecdotes and opinions. If this thread were about actual numbers and growth figures, you'd have more of a case.
You have your opinion, I have mine. Stop getting so "Frustrated" when people don't see things exactly as you do.
I understand that you're calling it your opinion, but above you made the matter-of-fact statement that "historically Houston had more appeal for blacks (not just black professionals) than Dallas" and then went on to reference that article which you now admit doesn't tell the whole story. So I'm okay with you having an opinion but honestly I'm a bit lost.
And you're not frustrating me, but it sure seems like you're attempting to with all of these ad hominems. Chill out before you get the thread closed for bickering.
But we’re talking about now and not the past. Downtown Dallas East Quarter, Midtown, City Place, and West Dallas Trinity Groves are all set to boom in the coming years. Dallas is currently in talks with Uber for huge office campus that will bring thousands of jobs to Downtown Dallas East Quarters. Not to mention Dallas already has an established rail system that will come in handy as the city continues to go vertical.
Okay and if we're talking about now, then it's easy to see that DFW is not separating itself from Houston. DFW's economic output nudged just above while it currently has its greatest economic expansion (almost) ever during Houston's worst slump (which has since reversed). What does that tell you? To me, it says that all Houston needs is a little jump/more economic diversification and it'll have a larger GDP again.
The current Dallas light rail system won't come in handy, as it's designed as a suburban commuter system even though Central Dallas has a less percentage of metro jobs than its peer cities (like Houston). The streetcar system might because it goes through Uptown and a changing Bishop Arts District. Houston's urban rail system is more of an asset than Dallas' current rail when it comes to urban development. Just look at the location and layout of both systems. Add in the lower parking minimums for the areas the rail goes through in Houston, and the difference in both is starting to become quite apparent. In 5 years, it'll be obvious.
A more bustling urban core will attract more people, which will in turn change Houston's reputation for the better. You can live a cheaper urban lifestyle with more choices in the core than Dallas and not a bunch of faux-urban areas in sterile suburbs (Allen, Frisco, Plano, and to a lesser extent Irving, etc.).
What attracts people to Dallas and why it has a better reputation is its pristine suburbia. There are only a handful of areas in the US that are anything like north DFW (Orange County, outer East Bay, and Johnson County being the only ones off the top of my head). As soon as those suburbs are seen as less than the best, it'll be time for some soul searching as people will move somewhere else instead.
Of course I've made it known throughout my many posts that I know both cities. The assumption on your part is that me being a Texan means I necessarily have a different perspective than someone who is from outside the state. Including yourself: a non-Texan that apparently has quite a bit of knowledge himself about both cities. Clearly, I see nuances between both cities, but so do you and Huntsville apparently, so what's the difference? Kind of seems like you're just splitting hairs.
I'd expect someone from Texas to have more of an opinion and possibly having a different perspective on what goes on in the state than an outsider - despite my knowledge because I'm still an outsider. Huntsville_secede lived in the state for awhile himself, so he has more credibility than I do. Again, according to the OP, this was about the perception of people who have never lived in Texas. Of course, this thread started back in 2015, so this thread evolved, but I was sticking to that point/perspective.
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I understand that you're calling it your opinion, but above you made the matter-of-fact statement that "historically Houston had more appeal for blacks (not just black professionals) than Dallas" and then went on to reference that article which you now admit doesn't tell the whole story. So I'm okay with you having an opinion but honestly I'm a bit lost.
Clearly...I've been talking about perception and reputation from outsiders all along and saying that "historically Houston had more appeal for blacks (not just black professionals) than Dallas" was in that context. I even clarified that point in several posts when you kept misinterpreting what I said as fact. Other posters seemed to understand what I was conveying, so if you misinterpreted that or took it literally or thinking I was saying that as a fact, that's your issue. And yeah, the article doesn't tell the whole story, but I never said that in the first place. I don't have time to spoon things to posters who just want to split hairs, get frustrated and get easily lost as you do, so this is where we end this .
Last edited by biscuit_head; 05-22-2019 at 03:15 PM..
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