Which of these cities have the best Chinatown? (state, compare, Los Angeles)
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And as a follow-up, outside of New York, the NE cities don't really have super defined Asian areas outside of their Chinatowns. They have a few tracts here and there in isolation with 20-30% Asians. Philly has one tract in South Philly that hits 49% again.
Seattle has some lower density areas that are primarily residential neighborhoods where mostly Asians (60+%) live. But its International District is teeny tiny and if I remember it has a lot of Vietnamese influence, too, so it's not really a Chinatown.
Going back to Oakland, one thing I didn't even include was a neighborhood immediately adjacent (akin to the neighborhood immediately adjacent to Chicago's CHinatown, which I did include). This whole extra neighborhood next to Oakland's Chinatown contained nearly 28K people as of 2010, was 46% Asian at density 15K ppsm (13K Asians). It alone from a demographic perspective would blow most Chinatowns out. Regarding city/metro of NYC and SF, I won't even call out the many neighborhoods of high density containing 60-70% Asians, tens to hundreds of thousands of them. LA to a degree, as well, but you just don't get the Asian (particularly Chinese) vibe there as much as in Bay Area/parts of New York, though SGV arguably has the best Chinese food.
I wonder what the ranking would look like if we also included suburban Chinatown's? You can make an argument that Markham/Richmond Hill is the most impressive of them all. I dont think I have seen a selection anywhere in North America that can rival it.
Agree about Markham. Probably #1 in North America...the folks there will tell you #1 in the world. The most promising chefs in Hong Kong, etc, use it as their ticket to the West, so they say.
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Originally Posted by edwardsyzzurphands
Vancouver's urban Chinatown is way below the ones you mentioned. Personally I have always been underwhelmed by Vancouver's urban Chinatown. Richmond on the other hand is impressive.
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Originally Posted by JMBX
That was my intuition about Vancouver just from street-viewing, but glad to have that confirmed.
I wouldn't crap on Vancouver city though. Maybe not the designated "Chinatown," but for the city itself there's tons of great Chinese options. According to Wikipedia, in 2009 within the city limits it was about 30% Chinese. Richmond is certainly a higher percentage, but still within Vancouver itself there's no shortage of Chinese.
And to the OP I gotta ask again:
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Originally Posted by projectmaximus
Having just made my first visit to Calgary this past weekend, I've eaten at every single one of these, and also a number of the suburban ones as well. What are your criteria for best? Are you talking about the food? Cultural amenities? Aesthetics? Quality of living?
I'm still confused which Chinatown we're talking about when we talk cities.
Because "legacy" Chinatowns aren't really where Chinese people live, or shop, or eat, for the most part. They're chop suey and tourist junk stores for visitors. Yes, there are some exceptions, but you don't go to legacy Chinese neighborhoods to view Chinese population or culture. The remaining Chinese tend to be elderly Cantonese speakers who immigrated a long time ago.
I'm still confused which Chinatown we're talking about when we talk cities.
Because "legacy" Chinatowns aren't really where Chinese people live, or shop, or eat, for the most part. They're chop suey and tourist junk stores for visitors. Yes, there are some exceptions, but you don't go to legacy Chinese neighborhoods to view Chinese population or culture. The remaining Chinese tend to be elderly Cantonese speakers who immigrated a long time ago.
This is true, but outside of New York, Bay Area, and LA, there aren't really true Chinese neighborhoods like you're referring to.
NYC/SF are the real true legacy Chinatowns of this country, but both are also pretty damn Chinese and still serve as a political heart of sorts of the area Chinese populations. The 1 Bus in SF goes from Richmond District (~50% Chinese and somewhere in the 750-125K population range) to the financial district, passing through Chinatown. You best believe that Chinese residents from the Richmond are coming into Chinatown to work, shop, hang out, etc, even though there are plenty of Chinese businesses in the Richmond. They definitely crowd the 1 Bus at all hours of the day. So Chinese residents in a more "authentic" Chinese majority residential neighborhood of size in SF are still coming into Chinatown.
Like Philly and Boston have "legacy" Chinatowns, but Boston's isn't yet all that touristy actually and do any of these cities have full on Chinese neighborhoods in the way that New York/NNJ and SF/Bay Area do? I don't think so...
So Chinese residents in a more "authentic" Chinese majority residential neighborhood of size in SF are still coming into Chinatown.
I agree with everything you said, but the downtown chinatown is authentic too. It does have ultra touristy grant street, but it's also mostly populated by chinese people including tons of immigrants (mostly poorer people too. Wealthier chinese people stay in the Richmond, Sunset, San Jose, or the suburbs).
^^^Yea, that's basically what I meant, poorly phrased. Manhattan's Chinatown is also touristy, but supports 44K Asian, probably almost entirely Chinese, residents within a few blocks of its touristy stretches. So it is certainly "authentic" as well.
The ethnic neighborhoods that have genuinely lost authenticity from a resident perspective are the original legacy Italian enclaves. Far more Chinese live in both Little Italy in Manhattan (bordering Chinatown) and North Beach in SF (bordering Chinatown) than there are actual Italian residents left. Couple that with general "Little Italy" type tourism, but that tourism keeps Italian businesses in these areas, which in turn keeps some Italian residents and pulls in additional Italian support to run these businesses day to day, even if the permanent residents are more Chinese these days.
^^Manhattan's Chinatown has less than 30k Chinese residents (still impressive), so definitely still a good number. But, as far as NYC's Chinatown's go, Brooklyn and Queens are no. 1 and no. 2 in terms of population of Chinese residents. You see this reality when riding the N or D daily. At the end of the work day, FAR more Chinese residents are heading into Brooklyn on those trains than are heading into Manhattan. Thus, while many Chinese residents still work (and, to a lesser extent, shop) in Manhattan's Chinatown, they are increasingly living in other Chinatown's in Brooklyn and Queens.
Last edited by prospectheightsresident; 07-31-2015 at 04:40 PM..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101
I'm still confused which Chinatown we're talking about when we talk cities.
Because "legacy" Chinatowns aren't really where Chinese people live, or shop, or eat, for the most part. They're chop suey and tourist junk stores for visitors. Yes, there are some exceptions, but you don't go to legacy Chinese neighborhoods to view Chinese population or culture. The remaining Chinese tend to be elderly Cantonese speakers who immigrated a long time ago.
You honestly think San Francisco's Downtown Chinatown isn't comprised almost exclusively of Chinese people who live, shop and raise their families there? Have you ever been a block off Grant Street?
^^Manhattan's Chinatown has less than 30k Chinese residents (still impressive), so definitely still a good number. But, as far as NYC's Chinatown's go, Brooklyn and Queens are no. 1 and no. 2 in terms of population of Chinese residents. You see this reality when riding the N or D daily. At the end of the work day, FAR more Chinese residents are heading into Brooklyn on those trains than are heading into Manhattan. Thus, while many Chinese residents still work (and, to a lesser extent, shop) in Manhattan's Chinatown, they are increasingly living in other Chinatown's in Brooklyn and Queens.
I get that...for my numbers above, I looked at any contiguous adjacent Census Tract with >50% Asian population (for SF and NYC) and >25% Asian for other cities, so the general Manhattan Chinatown area definitely has about 44K Asians living at concentrations of 50% or above in 0.72 sq mi (64% of the population in that area). There are only 2 tracts in there with >80% Asian residents (and can't be sure it's 100% Chinese, but likely). They actually only total to 16K residents.
So clearly one can redefine "Chinatown" a number of different ways.
If we want to talk >80% Chinese in any given Census Tract, contiguously, then Boston really doesn't even have a Chinatown. Neither does Philly. Neither does DC. Manhattan's is 16K people. SF's is 12K people. Chicago's is 6500 people. And Oakland's is 2200 people.
Density wise, NYC's core 16K person Chinatown is 114K ppsm, SF's core 12K person Chinatown is 65K ppsm, Oakland's is 20.5K ppsm, and Chicago's is 16.5K ppsm.
RE: your comments about Brooklyn/Queens. Yes, been making the same general comment about Brooklyn/Queens for a while. Also, SF and the Bay Area. These are really the only two cities/metros that have this dynamic.
Having just made my first visit to Calgary this past weekend, I've eaten at every single one of these, and also a number of the suburban ones as well. What are your criteria for best? Are you talking about the food? Cultural amenities? Aesthetics? Quality of living?
Let's say that food and cultural amenities are weighted more heavily than aesthetics or quality of living.
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