Which of these cities have the best Chinatown? (better, market, safe)
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Vancouver's urban Chinatown is way below the ones you mentioned. Personally I have always been underwhelmed by Vancouver's urban Chinatown. Richmond on the other hand is impressive.
Chinese people don't have much interest in living next to the worst neighborhood in Western Canada(the Downtown Eastside)--except for a few elderly folks living in cramped old apartments in the area on fixed income. But you'll still see Chinese people on the streets there(many are tourists actually) curious to still visit the historical Chinatown--so it does have a place in Vancouver, even if it's just for stops for the markets or festivals. Probably you're average hipster though is more interested in living in Chinatown these days than any Chinese immigrants, though in Vancouver a hipster could just as likely be an assimilated 2nd/3rd generation Chinese guy these days.
Though having one old urban neighborhood as Chinatown isn't really something that Vancouver needs, since us Chinese basically own half the city--and then basically have the entirity of Richmond. Chinatown? Try Chinacity...
It's funny how people still want to hold onto these urban Chinatowns though--only those and Little Italy's(or the occasional Greektown or Japantown) seem to make the preservation cut, a lot of other ethnic enclaves seem to just fade away into time. I guess the interest in Chinatowns as tourist area sort of has preserved them through the lean years of Asian immigration until recently.
So it's interesting that the immigrants of today who are often Vietnamese who settle in Chinatowns, somehow disturb the tourist mindset, because they're not Chinese, but they're actually helping maintain some level of vitality back to some of these older Chinatown neighborhoods. I guess it's similar to every other case of ethnic succession--Little Havana in Miami seems full of Central Americans when I went.
You honestly think San Francisco's Downtown Chinatown isn't comprised almost exclusively of Chinese people who live, shop and raise their families there? Have you ever been a block off Grant Street?
I wrote "with exceptions" in that post you're referencing. Manhattan and SF Chinatowns are the obvious exceptions.
But, even with NYC and SF, you don't go to the original Chinatowns for authentic Chinese culture. Maybe SF is different, but Manhattan Chinatown is primarily elderly and very Cantonese. There hasn't been significant immigration for decades. I suspect the Bay Area is similar in that other areas tend to draw more Chinese immigrants. There are probably more Chinese in Cupertino than in SF Chinatown at the point.
The reason that NYC and SF Chinatowns are more authentic than other legacy Chinatowns is because of specific zoning and cultural issues.
In Manhattan Chinatown, there was some immigration from Fuzhou in the 1970's and 1980's, so that kept the area authentic and not only Cantonese. This only happened because the whole neighborhood is rent-controlled and the Chinese own most of the real estate, and they don't advertise the housing outside the community. And even though far more Chinese live in Brooklyn and Queens, they still visit doctors, financial advisors and the like in Manhattan Chinatown. But even this is changing, and every year you see the SoHo influence infiltrate further into Chinatown, and you see some landlords now renting to non-Chinese. It will take a long time, but in 50 years I suspect Manhattan Chinatown will be for tourists only.
I'm not as familiar with the specifics of SF Chinatown, but I suspect there are similar policies. SF has rent control, and I know outsiders can't get apartment listings for SF Chinatown. So the landlords (probably all Chinese) "keep it in the family". The surrounding neighborhoods are all gentrified, but SF Chinatown continues to be all Chinese and fairly poor, so it must be similar to Manhattan Chinatown.
If anything, it seems SF Chinatown is more impermeable than Manhattan Chinatown. I see Manhattan Chinatown slowly shrinking, but SF Chinatown seems to have fixed boundaries, for the most part. I don't see hipster bars and restaurants and new boutique trendoid hotels all over SF Chinatown like you see in Manhattan Chinatown (though often they keep the old Chinese letters on the previous store facade, so you wouldn't even know it while passing by, but walk by at 2 AM and you'll see models and art-school hipsters hanging out).
It's funny how people still want to hold onto these urban Chinatowns though--only those and Little Italy's(or the occasional Greektown or Japantown) seem to make the preservation cut, a lot of other ethnic enclaves seem to just fade away into time. I guess the interest in Chinatowns as tourist area sort of has preserved them through the lean years of Asian immigration until recently.
So it's interesting that the immigrants of today who are often Vietnamese who settle in Chinatowns, somehow disturb the tourist mindset, because they're not Chinese, but they're actually helping maintain some level of vitality back to some of these older Chinatown neighborhoods. I guess it's similar to every other case of ethnic succession--Little Havana in Miami seems full of Central Americans when I went.
The Vietnamese in SF have their own neighborhood(s) and it isn't Chinatown. The advantage of living in that diversity is that there is an area for everyone.
I wrote "with exceptions" in that post you're referencing. Manhattan and SF Chinatowns are the obvious exceptions.
But, even with NYC and SF, you don't go to the original Chinatowns for authentic Chinese culture. Maybe SF is different, but Manhattan Chinatown is primarily elderly and very Cantonese. There hasn't been significant immigration for decades. I suspect the Bay Area is similar in that other areas tend to draw more Chinese immigrants. There are probably more Chinese in Cupertino than in SF Chinatown at the point.
The reason that NYC and SF Chinatowns are more authentic than other legacy Chinatowns is because of specific zoning and cultural issues.
In Manhattan Chinatown, there was some immigration from Fuzhou in the 1970's and 1980's, so that kept the area authentic and not only Cantonese. This only happened because the whole neighborhood is rent-controlled and the Chinese own most of the real estate, and they don't advertise the housing outside the community. And even though far more Chinese live in Brooklyn and Queens, they still visit doctors, financial advisors and the like in Manhattan Chinatown. But even this is changing, and every year you see the SoHo influence infiltrate further into Chinatown, and you see some landlords now renting to non-Chinese. It will take a long time, but in 50 years I suspect Manhattan Chinatown will be for tourists only.
I'm not as familiar with the specifics of SF Chinatown, but I suspect there are similar policies. SF has rent control, and I know outsiders can't get apartment listings for SF Chinatown. So the landlords (probably all Chinese) "keep it in the family". The surrounding neighborhoods are all gentrified, but SF Chinatown continues to be all Chinese and fairly poor, so it must be similar to Manhattan Chinatown.
If anything, it seems SF Chinatown is more impermeable than Manhattan Chinatown. I see Manhattan Chinatown slowly shrinking, but SF Chinatown seems to have fixed boundaries, for the most part. I don't see hipster bars and restaurants and new boutique trendoid hotels all over SF Chinatown like you see in Manhattan Chinatown (though often they keep the old Chinese letters on the previous store facade, so you wouldn't even know it while passing by, but walk by at 2 AM and you'll see models and art-school hipsters hanging out).
Yeah, you mostly have the right idea about SF's downtown Chinatown. But, there are lots of recent immigrants who live there there, as well as lots of older immigrants, which means there's lots of authentic Chinese culture (as well as the crappy tourist-trap spots). There are plenty of kids too. Also, SF's chinatown is not just fairly poor, but one of the poorest neighborhoods in SF, due to all the lower income immigrants who end up there, though there's also lots of wealth among the people in charge/property owners (who wield tons of political power in the city). There's even public housing there, and there was rampant gang and drug violence in the 1970s. Grant street is pretty inauthentic and extra well-manicured, because the businesses along it are 99% tourist-oriented...so maybe you could say Grant street is gentrified in a way. But I don't see the rest of chinatown getting like that, or filling up with hipsters or whatever, anytime soon.
Chicago's I have been to and it is isolated, but it's a few blocks of solid businesses and has encompassed a decent amount of more traditional architecture. There's no mistaking that you are in a Chinatown.
When you say isolated, people are going to think that it's in the middle of nowhere. It's a 5-10 minute train ride on a city train from the heart of downtown. I guess it's isolated from the fact that there's a drop in the level of street activity between the Roosevelt area and Chinatown. Geographically though, it's right south of downtown. There's also a second, smaller Chinatown though it's kind of known as Vietnamese, there's a number of Chinese businesses there too in Uptown.
Last edited by marothisu; 08-01-2015 at 06:08 PM..
Yea, it's been about 15 years for me, but I'd say Honolulu is solidly Japanese. Correct me if Im wrong...
I was last there about 2.5-ish years ago. I saw a lot of Chinese stuff but I just wasn't impressed by really anything compared to other cities. Like yes there was Chinese writing on the buildings, some Chinese architecture, etc but it didn't seem as great as say SF, NYC, or even Chicago's. I was recommend time and time again one place by locals saying it was the best restaurant there and I thought it was just average.
When you say isolated, people are going to think that it's in the middle of nowhere. It's a 5-10 minute train ride on a city train from the heart of downtown. I guess it's isolated from the fact that there's a drop in the level of street activity between the Roosevelt area and Chinatown. Geographically though, it's right south of downtown. There's also a second, smaller Chinatown though it's kind of known as Vietnamese, there's a number of Chinese businesses there too in Uptown.
Oh yeah. The stretch around Argyle is a solid Vietnamese area with some Chinese businesses mixed in. There is a huge popular Vietnamese grocery store over there. Definitely not as big as Chicago's official Chinatown, but a nice area.
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