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I tend to agree, but a boom in growth a la Atlanta, Charlotte, the Triangle, etc. would probably at least give them honorable mentions here.
Nah, there is nothing particularly old perse in VA Beach and it continues to grow and redevelop... though its initial boom phase was in the 80's/90s...but, it is still NOT the "New South." Boom or no boom...this area is just NOT the "New South." that is someone elses philosophy for self identification...not ours.
Nah, there is nothing particularly old perse in VA Beach and it continues to grow though its initial boom phase was in the 80's/90s...but, it is still NOT the "New South." Boom or no boom...this area is just NOT the "New South." that is someone elses philosophy for self identification...not ours.
You're right about the lack of "old" in VA Beach in particular, but I think that was true to an extent of Norfolk which is one of the oldest Southern cities, although it doesn't have as much of its historic urban fabric left that would testify to that like Richmond, Charleston, NOLA, etc.
But I'm not really even sure if today, the "New South" label would be embraced even by Deep South cities that undergo a sustained boom. It seemed to be more of a thing in previous decades but not so much today.
You're right about the lack of "old" in VA Beach in particular, but I think that was true to an extent of Norfolk which is one of the oldest Southern cities, although it doesn't have as much of its historic urban fabric left that would testify to that like Richmond, Charleston, NOLA, etc.
But I'm not really even sure if today, the "New South" label would be embraced even by Deep South cities that undergo a sustained boom. It seemed to be more of a thing in previous decades but not so much today.
Norfolk has reinvented itself many times...it doesn't have the stock it SHOULD have, as much of it has been destroyed through "urban renewal" but there is still plenty of old housing stock around Norfolk, as well as Portsmouth. And the design of the neighborhoods and little azz streets kinda allude to its historic nature.
I think some places do embrace that label in the Deep South such as Birmingham and maybe Huntsville...not sure if Birmingham is really in "boom" mode though...the residents seem to embrace it.
Norfolk has reinvented itself many times...it doesn't have the stock it SHOULD have, as much of it has been destroyed through "urban renewal" but there is still plenty of old housing stock around Norfolk, as well as Portsmouth. And the design of the neighborhoods and little azz streets kinda allude to its historic nature.
This is true. I remember seeing one of those old photos of Norfolk from like the 20's or something and you'd never guess it used to be that dense. Of course all cities were impacted by the ravaging effects of urban renewal back in the day, but the contrast seems to be a bit stark in Norfolk, particularly given the age of the city.
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I think some places do embrace that label in the Deep South such as Birmingham and maybe Huntsville...not sure if Birmingham is really in "boom" mode though...the residents seem to embrace it.
Birmingham probably embraces it out of nostalgia more than anything; it was one of the first "New South" cities historically, along with Atlanta. It's not really referred to as a "New South" city in the modern sense though...it's not booming right now but but its downtown is undergoing a pretty impressive renaissance.
When did orlando join Atlanta? Orlando is not the "real south". Orlando is more Midwestern than anything else. There is no south in Orlando like there is in Atlanta, they don't belong in the same category.
Really? Orlando is not like Atlanta. Central Florida on down does NOT have southern culture. The saying in Florida is the further north the more southern it gets.
The Black Americans in Orlando and South tend to disagree with you. They call themselves Southerners.
Really? Orlando is not like Atlanta. Central Florida on down does NOT have southern culture. The saying in Florida is the further north the more southern it gets.
First of all, the notion that Orlando is culturally Midwestern is utterly laughable on its face.
And secondly, if you're going by that saying, that would mean that Orlando, being in central Florida, would be at least moderately Southern.
At any rate, regardless of how you categorize Orlando today from a cultural standpoint, the fact remains that 1) historically it was undeniably culturally Southern and then underwent some changes as it grew and developed (hence the term "New South") and 2) it is geographically located IN the South. It's the southernmost state in the southern United States.
First of all, the notion that Orlando is culturally Midwestern is utterly laughable on its face.
And secondly, if you're going by that saying, that would mean that Orlando, being in central Florida, would be at least moderately Southern.
At any rate, regardless of how you categorize Orlando today from a cultural standpoint, the fact remains that 1) historically it was undeniably culturally Southern and then underwent some changes as it grew and developed (hence the term "New South") and 2) it is geographically located IN the South. It's the southernmost state in the southern United States.
Florida may be geographically southern but it is not for the most part culturally southern. Miami for sure isn't like Atlanta. Most of Florida don't have southern accents like Georgia and the rest of the south because many snowbirds spend the winter down in Florida and many people from the Midwest and Northeast have moved to south Florida. It's a well known fact that the further south you go in Florida, the more "north" it gets. Most people who live in Florida aren't from Florida hence the way Florida has that feature.
Culturally yes Florida is Midwestern in the sense it would fit in better in the Midwest than it does with Alabama. South Florida most people are from the Midwest or Northeast hence the no accents. Most people are NOT even from Florida. It's been described like this for many years including Floridians.
Florida may be geographically southern but it is not for the most part culturally southern. Miami for sure isn't like Atlanta. Most of Florida don't have southern accents like Georgia and the rest of the south because many snowbirds spend the winter down in Florida and many people from the Midwest and Northeast have moved to south Florida. It's a well known fact that the further south you go in Florida, the more "north" it gets. Most people who live in Florida aren't from Florida hence the way Florida has that feature.
Culturally yes Florida is Midwestern in the sense it would fit in better in the Midwest than it does with Alabama. South Florida most people are from the Midwest or Northeast hence the no accents. Most people are NOT even from Florida. It's been described like this for many years including Floridians.
It's well-known that most of the transplants in Florida hail from the Northeast, not the Midwest; it's why greater Miami is sometimes colloquially referred to as the "sixth borough." And no, Florida doesn't fit in better in the Midwest. For one, Florida is coastal and much warmer. Two, Florida isn't post-industrial like much of the Midwest. Three, Florida's universities don't have the cachet of many Midwestern universities. Four, Florida's demographics are very different from much of the Midwest. Five, nothing about Florida is Great Lakes or Great Plains culturally or geographically. Six, Florida has no historic European ethnic enclaves that I'm aware of. Of course Florida isn't a clone of Alabama, but it's in the South and that's not changing.
Florida is geographically Southern and Orlando is firmly rooted in the geographical and cultural South, with growth and development changing some of those cultural dynamics over time--hence it belongs in conversations about "New South" cities, both from a historical perspective and a contemporary perspective.
As many here know, the term "New South" is actually pretty old, dating from just after the Civil War/Reconstruction when some Southern cities wanted to move away from being plantation and rural based and towards urban manufacturing and trade. Atlanta and Birmingham were two of the most visible.
In current terms, New South seems to have taken on a meaning of cities with diversified and knowledge/hi-tech based economies. I tend to think of Atlanta (again), Charlotte, Raliegh-Durham, and Nashville. Most of those cities have lots of white collar jobs, good universities, relatively high household income, and are largely located in the Piedmont. Many people would also include the Texas cities like Houston, Dallas, and Austin. All of them have experienced significant population growth over the last few decades. While there are historic parts of all of these cities they tend to feel a bit newer and the build environment tends to be more car-centric. And of course they are located in the southern (I think of primarily southeastern) United States and tend to be culturally southern (which I know is a whole debate itself). Any other thoughts on what makes a city "New South" in the current usage.
I'm not sure who is next up to join them. There are several promising candidates, but no sure things.
Richmond seems to be growing fairly well and benefits from its proximity to the Northeast Corridor. It is in my mind the northernmost southern city east of the appalachians (Northern Virginia being groupled in w/ DC). It doesn't have quite the same feel as the others b/c it has more historic housing stock and a denser urban fabric, but it has a pretty high per capita GDP
Huntsville: Smaller than the others, but it fits in perfectly IMO. More of a knowledge based economy, strong growth, very southern.
With both Hampton Roads and Jacksonville the military is a very large part of the economy and I don't think the education or income levels are on par w/ the other cities we are discussing. Jacksonville has higher growth I believe.
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