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Are you all including recent Philly dining destinations, like East Passyunk, when you refer to CC dining overall?
They shouldn't be IMO, since EP is not in CC (although it is in Greater CC). As someone who lives one block from the best restaurants on EP, I think my hood could challenge some mid-sized cities for best food.
They shouldn't be IMO, since EP is not in CC (although it is in Greater CC). As someone who lives one block from the best restaurants on EP, I think my hood could challenge some mid-sized cities for best food.
It actually did get a recent mention as among the 7 most important dinning streets in the country - Passyunk Ave
I kinda figured this whole thread included greater CC since there is virtually no population in real downtown SF. Downtown SF would be FiDi and Union Square. It's almost entirely stores, restaurants, hotels, and offices. The Tenderloin, SoMa, and Chinatown surround FiDi and Union Square. It's more difficult to separate the shopping district from the working district from the residential district in older cities like Philly. In SF, those different areas are much more well defined.
So from how I was understanding this thread, East Passyunk would be included.
So maybe we should try to define what we mean by downtown. With that, my view is that the more restricted downtown is defined as, to an extent, the better Philadelphia does and the more expansive downtown is defined as, the better SF will generally do.
there is virtually no population in real downtown SF. Downtown SF would be FiDi and Union Square.
Wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431
The Tenderloin, SoMa, and Chinatown surround FiDi and Union Square.
Those are part of downtown SF too.
edit: to be more accurate, much but not all of SOMA (the southern FiDi/transbay area, Rincon Hill, Moscone Center, Mission and Howard streets down to to South Van Ness ave) is part of downtown, and much of chinatown, which is next to the FiDi, is also in downtown, but not all of it (i'd put the cut-off at either jackson, Pacific, or Broadway). Civic Center is also part of downtown, as is the southern/eastern part of Nob Hill (which is directly adjacent to union square, the FiDi, and the Tenderloin), where there are a bunch of high rise hotels and apartment buildings. "Downtown SF" isn't a clearly defined entity, but as someone who was born in SF and spent the first 27 years of my life there (and who still lives next to it), downtown is certainly larger than just the FiDi and Union square. Most people i've ever known around here would agree with me on that.
And since you mentioned population, that area has around 70,000-80,000 residents, and is roughly 2 square miles.
edit: to be more accurate, much but not all of SOMA (the southern FiDi/transbay area, Rincon Hill, Moscone Center, Mission and Howard streets down to to South Van Ness ave) is part of downtown, and much of chinatown, which is next to the FiDi, is also in downtown, but not all of it (i'd put the cut-off at either jackson, Pacific, or Broadway). Civic Center is also part of downtown, as is the southern/eastern part of Nob Hill (which is directly adjacent to union square, the FiDi, and the Tenderloin), were there a bunch of high rise hotels and apartment buildings. "Downtown SF" isn't a clearly defined entity, but as someone who was born in SF and spent the first 27 years of my life there (and who still lives next to it), downtown is certainly larger than just the FiDi and Union square. Most people i've ever known around here would agree with me on that.
And since you mentioned population, that area has around 70,000-80,000 residents.
Yeah, there are people living in Union Square and FiDi, but it's mostly hotels, stores, offices, and restaurants. I had a friend that lived in Union Square in a loft. It happens. I guess I shouldn't have said almost nobody. But the majority of units and buildings in the are not zoned for residential. After looking at this map, I'm not sure how the city allows them. It must grant variances to developers, because the downtown areas ARE NOT zoned for residential use.
According to that, "downtown" is definitely Union Square and FiDi. "Downtown Support/Office/General/etc." is used for those areas.
It definitely comes down to what we define as "downtown" though. If we're including great Center City with places like East Passyunk, then the TL and Chinatown would count too. It's hard to really figure out where a cut off point for either city would be though.
edit: to be more accurate, much but not all of SOMA (the southern FiDi/transbay area, Rincon Hill, Moscone Center, Mission and Howard streets down to to South Van Ness ave) is part of downtown, and much of chinatown, which is next to the FiDi, is also in downtown, but not all of it (i'd put the cut-off at either jackson, Pacific, or Broadway). Civic Center is also part of downtown, as is the southern/eastern part of Nob Hill (which is directly adjacent to union square, the FiDi, and the Tenderloin), were there a bunch of high rise hotels and apartment buildings. "Downtown SF" isn't a clearly defined entity, but as someone who was born in SF and spent the first 27 years of my life there (and who still lives next to it), downtown is certainly larger than just the FiDi and Union square. Most people i've ever known around here would agree with me on that.
And since you mentioned population, that area has around 70,000-80,000 residents.
Yes people who dont know sh*t should just be quiet.
So maybe we should try to define what we mean by downtown. With that, my view is that the more restricted downtown is defined as, to an extent, the better Philadelphia does and the more expansive downtown is defined as, the better SF will generally do.
Perhaps but Greater Center City expands very nicely especially if you include University City which is an immediate extension of Center City . Unfortunately for Philadelphia its the neighborhoods at arms length from Center City that drag Philadephia down.
Where SF clobbers Philly is the non downtown neighborhoods.Philly has some gems outside Center City (Chestnut Hill/West Mount Airy/East Falls etc etc) but way too many poverty stricken hoods in North + Sw Philly.
Greater Center City I would say goes from Delaware River(2nd Street) westward to about 45th Street in University City( 4 1/2 miles) Approximately 1 1/2- 2 miles N/S Bainbridge to Spring Garden. A legit 7-8 sq.miles.
I personally think East Passyunk is solid South Philly not Center City.
Here is an aerial from around 45th St in University City looking East toward NJ.
North and SW Philly wouldn't be "downtown" though.
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