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You just attack Toronto for the wrong things. Crime, poverty, lawlessness, lack of order, and cleanliness are not things you attack Toronto for, it is nicknamed the "city that works" for a reason.
Haha you will find zero examples of me sitting around and suddenly 'attack' Toronto-my comments are all in response to you.
Quote:
What could you attack Toronto for?
Easy...
Originally Posted by Toronto Star, October 4, 2016 ...But among all the rah-rah there’s a lot of not-so-good news, and some findings that are downright shameful:
-One child in four in Toronto is being raised in poverty, a number that has hardly budged in 20 years. Five of the 15 federal ridings in the country with the highest rates of child poverty are here, and the city has the highest poverty rate of all large Canadian cities. The stark truth, says the report, is that “Toronto is the child poverty capital of Canada.” It’s a sobering reality that, as Avery says in a speech to be delivered this week, “deserves our shock, our anger and our action.”
-There are other troubling signs that as Toronto becomes richer it has also become a much more unequal place, a disturbing trend that Vital Signs reports have documented for the past 15 years. The number of people relying on food banks keeps growing, and the need is moving from the central core to the inner suburbs. Demand there is up almost 50 per cent in the past eight years.
-Housing is at a crisis point. Even for those with money, as we all know, houses in Toronto are getting out of reach. For those at the lower end, it’s clearly much worse. Fewer rental units are being built and almost 85,000 households are on waiting lists for social housing, while governments can’t manage even to keep existing units in decent repair. This is a disaster that’s been building for years, and now cries out for urgent solutions. Governments must take the lead, but the Toronto Foundation says we should also look to the private sector for fresh thinking.
-Some kinds of crime are actually rising after falling for years; stabbings, for example, are at a four-year high. The Muslim community is experiencing more hate crimes and there’s widespread mistrust of police. Half of those surveyed in one poll believe there is systemic racism in Toronto, and more than half support the Black Lives Matter movement. This is evidence of a worrisome gap between police and important segments of the community.
-Our transportation networks are straining to keep up with the growth we’ve seen over the past couple of decades. Torontonians have the longest commutes in the country, aside from those in even more congested Vancouver. The number of people who walk or bike to work is going up, but outside the City of Toronto 90 per cent of commuters still rely on the car...
Haha you will find zero examples of me sitting around and suddenly 'attack' Toronto-my comments are all in response to you.
Easy...
Originally Posted by Toronto Star, October 4, 2016 ...But among all the rah-rah there’s a lot of not-so-good news, and some findings that are downright shameful:
-One child in four in Toronto is being raised in poverty, a number that has hardly budged in 20 years. Five of the 15 federal ridings in the country with the highest rates of child poverty are here, and the city has the highest poverty rate of all large Canadian cities. The stark truth, says the report, is that “Toronto is the child poverty capital of Canada.” It’s a sobering reality that, as Avery says in a speech to be delivered this week, “deserves our shock, our anger and our action.”
-There are other troubling signs that as Toronto becomes richer it has also become a much more unequal place, a disturbing trend that Vital Signs reports have documented for the past 15 years. The number of people relying on food banks keeps growing, and the need is moving from the central core to the inner suburbs. Demand there is up almost 50 per cent in the past eight years.
-Housing is at a crisis point. Even for those with money, as we all know, houses in Toronto are getting out of reach. For those at the lower end, it’s clearly much worse. Fewer rental units are being built and almost 85,000 households are on waiting lists for social housing, while governments can’t manage even to keep existing units in decent repair. This is a disaster that’s been building for years, and now cries out for urgent solutions. Governments must take the lead, but the Toronto Foundation says we should also look to the private sector for fresh thinking.
-Some kinds of crime are actually rising after falling for years; stabbings, for example, are at a four-year high. The Muslim community is experiencing more hate crimes and there’s widespread mistrust of police. Half of those surveyed in one poll believe there is systemic racism in Toronto, and more than half support the Black Lives Matter movement. This is evidence of a worrisome gap between police and important segments of the community.
-Our transportation networks are straining to keep up with the growth we’ve seen over the past couple of decades. Torontonians have the longest commutes in the country, aside from those in even more congested Vancouver. The number of people who walk or bike to work is going up, but outside the City of Toronto 90 per cent of commuters still rely on the car...
Which is why I laugh at your acute anti-US smugness.
Like I've told you, in Canada the standards for what constitutes poverty are higher than in the US:
Quote:
In Toronto, poverty is calculated based on an annual income of $16,546 for a single person and $39,912 for a family of four. This is in a city where a one bed apartment goes for $1,500/mo.
In San Francisco, poverty is calculated based on an annual income of $11,490 for a single person, or $23,550 for a family of four. This is in a city where a one bedroom apartment goes for $4000/mo.
Yes as Canadians for us this stat is outrage worthy, but we have high standards.
The other concerns are par for the course for any large growing metropolis. In the end our violent crime rates are still among the lowest in North America, our housing costs are rising fast but interest rates are very low (government has also started to introduce measures to curb foreign ownership, a key reason for rising prices), and our public transit is among the best in North America (though North America is not a good standard for public transit).
San Francisco is worse than Toronto in all of these areas, and sometimes by a considerable margin. A San Franciscan making fun of us for stabbings and violent crime is laughable. Your murder rate is 4x what it is in Toronto.
Drizzy Drake talks about how he grew up in the ghettos of Toronto on Weston road and people make fun of him because the ghettos of Toronto are laughable compared the the ghettos in Oakland or Chicago south side. The worst areas of Toronto would be a spectacular political achievement for your politicians in the Bay Area and you would be here the next day posting the stats.
Last edited by Mr. Burns; 10-08-2016 at 10:12 PM..
Haha you will find zero examples of me sitting around and suddenly 'attack' Toronto-my comments are all in response to you.
Easy...
Originally Posted by Toronto Star, October 4, 2016 ...But among all the rah-rah there’s a lot of not-so-good news, and some findings that are downright shameful:
-One child in four in Toronto is being raised in poverty, a number that has hardly budged in 20 years. Five of the 15 federal ridings in the country with the highest rates of child poverty are here, and the city has the highest poverty rate of all large Canadian cities. The stark truth, says the report, is that “Toronto is the child poverty capital of Canada.” It’s a sobering reality that, as Avery says in a speech to be delivered this week, “deserves our shock, our anger and our action.”
-There are other troubling signs that as Toronto becomes richer it has also become a much more unequal place, a disturbing trend that Vital Signs reports have documented for the past 15 years. The number of people relying on food banks keeps growing, and the need is moving from the central core to the inner suburbs. Demand there is up almost 50 per cent in the past eight years.
-Housing is at a crisis point. Even for those with money, as we all know, houses in Toronto are getting out of reach. For those at the lower end, it’s clearly much worse. Fewer rental units are being built and almost 85,000 households are on waiting lists for social housing, while governments can’t manage even to keep existing units in decent repair. This is a disaster that’s been building for years, and now cries out for urgent solutions. Governments must take the lead, but the Toronto Foundation says we should also look to the private sector for fresh thinking.
-Some kinds of crime are actually rising after falling for years; stabbings, for example, are at a four-year high. The Muslim community is experiencing more hate crimes and there’s widespread mistrust of police. Half of those surveyed in one poll believe there is systemic racism in Toronto, and more than half support the Black Lives Matter movement. This is evidence of a worrisome gap between police and important segments of the community.
-Our transportation networks are straining to keep up with the growth we’ve seen over the past couple of decades. Torontonians have the longest commutes in the country, aside from those in even more congested Vancouver. The number of people who walk or bike to work is going up, but outside the City of Toronto 90 per cent of commuters still rely on the car...
Which is why I laugh at your acute anti-US smugness.
Again, you seem to be blind to the different standards being used here.
Poverty rate is calculated differently in Canada and Toronto's poverty rate is also because of its really open immigration policy. The more sobering reality of this is that poverty correlates with higher likelihoods of violence and homicide for both regions (and generally the world over), but that homicide rate for the Bay Area means poverty at the low end is tailored to far greater extremes of violence than in Toronto.
Inequality in Toronto isn't great, but it's fantastic compared to US cities in general especially when you're talking about the Bay Area.
There is a housing crisis in Toronto. It's peanuts compared to the Bay Area.
Crime rates? Have you tried looking at the stats? Do you know what constitutes worrying crime rates for Canada and what constitutes worrying crime rates for the US? And do you understand that even with the lower bar for the US, the Bay Area still ain't doing stellar here?
Oh right, and the Bay Area has an amazing mass transit system in comparison? You want to compound that with the much worse poverty, inequality and housing crisis which has pushed so many way out from the employment centers in the Bay Area (and that's in abstract without considering how far out people are pushed from the employment centers)? Have you actually tried comparing the mass transit system in Toronto versus the Bay Area? It's ridiculous. The Bay Area does have decent mass transit for a US city/metro--and that is a low bar for a developed country. That editorial is going on about Toronto's struggles but that is in relation to what they wish they had and it's set to a much higher bar--they sure as hell aren't looking to the US to set that bar because then they might as well take a siesta and feel good about it. And with that, Toronto's mass transit expansion plans are far more ambitious and likely to become a reality than any of the Bay Area's.
What fantastical world do you live in? How are you able to be this self-deceiving?
It's a really simple line of arguments you should be making and sticking to -- the Bay Area is far more globally influential and economically powerful than Toronto. That's the big one the Bay Area has over Toronto and the lead is huge. Delving into poverty, inequality, housing crises/affordability, and mass transit does not favor the Bay Area so well, so what keeps you going there over and over again if your obvious end goal is only to say the Bay Area is better?
Anyhow, I do like talking about mass transit. I think the big thing the Bay Area shot itself in the foot with was going broad gauge for BART. This means no economies of scale for purchasing traincars along with other agencies (where standard gauge is a lot more standard), using and converting existing rail and right-of-ways as a cheap means for expansion, and no possibility of making a seamless integration with Caltrain to fold routes into the same lines. It's also so built out at this point that switching would be incredibly disruptive. Certainly the Bay Area has both the weakest mass transit system of the four and has the steepest difficulties to face in order to improve. It's a tough one, but maybe the region can convince the large private enterprises in the area to help chip in to improve its prospects.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 10-08-2016 at 10:46 PM..
Again, you seem to be blind to the different standards being used here.
What are you talking about? That these issues might be more acute elsewhere does NOTHING to help people in Toronto who are suffering with these problems.
That housing is more expensive in SF is zero consolation to Torontonians being priced out of their city.
I mean really, forgive me if I'll believe the Toronto Star's assessment over you and Mr.Burns.
What are you talking about? That these issues might be more acute elsewhere does NOTHING to help people in Toronto who are suffering with these problems.
That housing is more expensive in SF is zero consolation to Torontonians being priced out of their city.
I mean really, forgive me if I'll believe the Toronto Star's assessment over you and Mr.Burns.
Oh, you conveniently forgot this was a comparison topic? Or were you trying to go for a non-existent claim someone made that Toronto or somewhere else was absolutely perfect?
Oh, you conveniently forgot this was a comparison topic? Or are you trying to go for a non-existent claim someone made that Toronto or somewhere else was absolutely perfect?
Good work!
Yes I dont have tolerance for hypocrisy. The Canadian media constantly derides Toronto's overpriced housing market and increasing income inequality and social problems--and this troll wants to single out SF?
Yes I dont have tolerance for hypocrisy. The Canadian media constantly derides Toronto's overpriced housing market and increasing income inequality and social problems--and this troll wants to single out SF?
Hahahaha not on my watch.
These problems are nothing compared to what SF deals with in the same areas. It's not hypocrisy in a comparison thread.
Like I've told you, in Canada the standards for what constitutes poverty are higher than in the US:
Not true. Based on your own posted stats, the standards for poverty in the U.S. and Canada are almost exactly the same.
1 Canadian Dollar = .75 United States Dollar. That means the two countries have essentially the same income cutoffs for poverty, and also means that Toronto has far higher % of poor than San Francisco.
Not true. Based on your own posted stats, the standards for poverty in the U.S. and Canada are almost exactly the same.
1 Canadian Dollar = .75 United States Dollar. That means the two countries have essentially the same income cutoffs for poverty, and also means that Toronto has far higher % of poor than San Francisco.
The dollar conversion is irrelevant because rent and other costs in Canada are not in USD.
if you convert the income you need to convert the rental costs as well, which would be lower and you're back to square one.
You need over double the minimum income set by San Francisco to be on the same poverty level as the minimum income set by Toronto given living and housing costs in SF. With this into account SF likely has many more people living in poverty by Toronto standards than Toronto and than the official stats.
The dollar conversion is irrelevant because rent and other costs in Canada are not in USD.
This makes no sense. If you're comparing incomes across national boundaries then obviously you have to convert currency values.
I mean, otherwise, what's the point? I could say that Zimbabwe is richer than Switzerland. Just don't convert the currency values.
Of course rent and other costs aren't in foreign currency. This has nothing to do with anything. The fact is that Canada and the U.S. appear to have very roughly similar income cutoffs for poverty.
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