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I think the original question is too poorly defined to answer in a meaningful way. What is an urban suburb, anyway? What about suburban parts of the main city? Cambridge is more urban than West Roxbury, although one is a different city and one was annexed by Boston many years ago.
i dunno' much about the d.c. cities, but anyone claiming that cambridge, somerville, brookline is suburban is not making sense. they have among the highest densities and more t stops than most big cities in the country ?
I think the original question is too poorly defined to answer in a meaningful way. What is an urban suburb, anyway? What about suburban parts of the main city? Cambridge is more urban than West Roxbury, although one is a different city and one was annexed by Boston many years ago.
Not defined at all! -- with circular arguments as a result. As an urban planner with much experience of the Boston area and a little of Washington, I agree with whoever is saying that places like Silver Spring don't really compare with Chelsea, Somerville, Everett, Malden, and so on. The latter all represent naturally occurring growth radiating out from Boston proper. The fact that they are all independent towns says more about Massachusetts politics than about their urban character.
What the Boston region has in spades is old industrial satellite cities. Some of them, like Lowell and Lawrence, were built by investors to harness water power for textile manufacturing. Salem and New Bedford originated as seaports and added a manufacturing overlay in the 19th century. Others--e.g., Worcester, Waltham, Lynn, Brockton--became factory cities in the 19th century. They all have the bones of very urban places with brick blocks downtown and closely-spaced houses and apartments. Some of them are regenerating economically and some are struggling in that respect but they all provide important housing and cultural resources for nonwhite and immigrant communities like the Cambodian and Vietnamese in Lowell, the Portuguese in New Bedford, Dominicans in Lawrence and Brazilians in Framingham. Most have MBTA commuter rail service.
The Washington DC region doesn't have this stock of dense satellite cities. What it has instead is dynamic, nearly brand-new, big urban places. As I said in an earlier thread, this doesn't really happen in Mass or New England because of the local control problem. But all these old satellites are willing to grow; they're walkable more or less, and they have big economic development potential.
Not defined at all! -- with circular arguments as a result. As an urban planner with much experience of the Boston area and a little of Washington, I agree with whoever is saying that places like Silver Spring don't really compare with Chelsea, Somerville, Everett, Malden, and so on. The latter all represent naturally occurring growth radiating out from Boston proper. The fact that they are all independent towns says more about Massachusetts politics than about their urban character.
What the Boston region has in spades is old industrial satellite cities. Some of them, like Lowell and Lawrence, were built by investors to harness water power for textile manufacturing. Salem and New Bedford originated as seaports and added a manufacturing overlay in the 19th century. Others--e.g., Worcester, Waltham, Lynn, Brockton--became factory cities in the 19th century. They all have the bones of very urban places with brick blocks downtown and closely-spaced houses and apartments. Some of them are regenerating economically and some are struggling in that respect but they all provide important housing and cultural resources for nonwhite and immigrant communities like the Cambodian and Vietnamese in Lowell, the Portuguese in New Bedford, Dominicans in Lawrence and Brazilians in Framingham. Most have MBTA commuter rail service.
The Washington DC region doesn't have this stock of dense satellite cities. What it has instead is dynamic, nearly brand-new, big urban places. As I said in an earlier thread, this doesn't really happen in Mass or New England because of the local control problem. But all these old satellites are willing to grow; they're walkable more or less, and they have big economic development potential.
i dunno' much about the d.c. cities, but anyone claiming that cambridge, somerville, brookline is suburban is not making sense. they have among the highest densities and more t stops than most big cities in the country ?
Suburb and suburban tend to refer to different things.
In normal parlance, any municipality within an MSA which is not a core city can be considered a suburb. Hence for example Evanston, IL is invariably considered a suburb in Cook County even though it has a pretty built up downtown area.
Suburban, in contrast, usually refers to some aspect of commutes and/or built form. A city neighborhood can be suburban (a "suburb in the city") if it's mostly residential, dominated by single-family houses, and has mostly postwar housing stock. In contrast, an area not within a suburban municipality can be urban if it's mixed use, has higher levels of residential density, and a pre-war (and especially 19th century) built vernacular.
There is, of course, no clear dividing line between urban and suburban. You can say that neighborhood X is more urban than neighborhood Y, but you cannot say catagorically that one is urban and the other is not. For example, in portions of the country with a lot of 19th century housing stock, streetcar suburb neighborhoods tend to be viewed as suburban, whereas in the West and South, they are more likely to be seen as core urban neighborhoods.
A residential ghetto but I bet it has great population density!
I'm really questioning whether you've been to any of these Boston area towns. It isn't just population density, it's the fact that almost every neighborhood is walkable and has amenities. That's more indicative of urbanity than an intense TOD downtown that trails off into typical suburbia.
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