America's best big city downtowns (development, food, live, state)

[DavePa]

Originally Posted by fusion2

There are varying degrees of success that Toronto has had with respect to how highrises interact with street level vitality and vibrancy. Some very good, some horrible. Such as the case with a city building such a vast number of highrises.. In any event, I fundamentally agree with you that highriese or skyscrapers alone don't necessarily kill urban vibrancy. As a counterpoint to some narratives, the increased number of residents in said highrise may not necessarilty increase vibrancy in the ambient area, however they may increase vibrancy tremendously in others areas that already have established vibrancy since you have an overall increased number of resident in the area is far better than urban decay. Unless of course those resident always live in their condos or apartments which I find highly unlikely.

A highrise or skyscraper that incorporates restaurants, retail and other more embracing attributes to how it interrelates to the street however is more desirable to a podium dedicated only to parking. I mean this is just common sense.

Here I introduce you to Aura. It is the tallest all residential highrise in Canada at 270 Metres (900 ft) tall - it is a behemoth residential building of office tower proportions. It is not particularly beautiful or notable architecturally but its podium is NOT parking and at the very least has a restarants, shops, a gym etc so that to me is far more a better example of a building that marries highrise street level vitality/vibrancy than simply a parking podium that screams - stay away from me unless you are a car!

Again, my point was .... a Podium high-rise need not be a banal street-level, vibrancy killing monstrosity. They bone in varying sizes and newer versions (as I highlighted in some street-views) can be aesthetically pleasant and offer retail and eateries on street-level (as they should to maintain a vibrancy and yet urban footprint. I ADDED IMO. You want to mock them? You can do a thread too on their evils....

I'm not saying best choice or a NYC (OMG NO) or Toronto should use them (God forbid I mention Toronto). For NYC its price prohibitive by sq/ft pricing and most have a small footprint anyway today. I mentioned Toronto basically chose to force the parking underground over a podium. Works for it . I just added that it doesn't automatically mean more street-level offerings over a modern podium one done right.

Podiums work for Chicago as I added too.... blending the older around it with established street-level offerings. Are a key to getting all the necessary attributes to satisfy most. Those who live in a podium still have the luxury of convenient parking with all the urban trimmings around them and using a car merely for pleasure outings and travel outside the city if the so choose and whatever other extras the building incorporates.

I do see a podium high-rise (again done right) superior to a high-rises like a Houston's core is getting today .... with a separate parking garage next door. The podium has both in the same size lot size. As we know ..... US sunbelt cities still remain car necessary or fully desired to have. So parking still is going to be needed. Try ARE NOT going to do the underground thing there I'm sure. So a podium-style done better I'd promote there. They already have HUGE street killing nearly block-size parking garages. They I abhor if nothing street-level.

We still like having a vehicle .... even if you use transit to and from work in cities with booming cores again.... and plenty to walk to where you live. I do not know why a opinion that a podium just kills all good aspects of urban living. When a city like Chicago proves it otherwise. It can be the best of both world's done right and blend of new and old.

I'm certainly not going to argue Chicago's choice over NYC's. Reasons for both. Same for Toronto. It some want to see Chicago overly tarnished to have embraced the podium? They certainly can. I'm just saying they are a option and does not have to destroy still good urban attributes and vibrancy.

Maybe I should have got in the pizza debate instead.

The thread is on Best Downtowns. Chicago still gets a high billing in list with podium-style. So this IT KILLS ALL is foolish. But you need to do it WITH street-level offerings. In Chicago..... a developer wants approval today by the city? They better do something street-level and not forget some green. One under construction a luxury all residential condos and apartments one.... agreed to build a small park next door.

Chicago has a few tall ones under construction and planned. One Bennet Park nearing its sum it in completion is my favorite most will be PODIUMS. I'd never afford it though....
*** A LIST OF SOME CHICAGOS UNDER CONSTRUCTION AND PLANNED TOWERS AND PICTURES :

https://chicago.curbed.com/2018/3/16...r-architecture.

I will just use this example OF A NEW PODIUM TOWER coming to Chicago. Not my favorite design ... but generally I like most better once I see it built. The developers did changes and added perks to gain city approval.

Some added perks the developer gung-hoe to get it built ...

JDL will
- contribute roughly $13.2 million to Chicago’s Neighborhood Opportunity Bonus system.
- fund infrastructure upgrades on Chicago Avenue.
- improvements to Streeterville’s Seneca Park.
- The project will also pay $11.37 million into Chicago’s affordable housing fund and finance 22 actual units at the neighboring Lawson House YMCA building.
- JDL has committed to filling 50 percent of the construction jobs with Chicago resident.
- drawing 26 percent of workers from minority-owned and 6 percent from women-owned firms.

What the buildings have. One Chicago Square. Development calls for a pair of glassy towers rising a respective 49 and 76 stories ATOP A SHARED PODIUM. The taller of the duo will top out at 1,011 feet and:
- will contain up to 869 residential units comprised of both rental and for-sale condo units.
- commercial space for offices,
- a grocery store,
- high-end heath club, and restaurant.

The plan specifies 865 accessory parking spaces plus 225 stalls reserved exclusively for Holy Name Cathedral parishioners next door.
THAT'S FOR OVER 1000 CARS ....

https://chicago.curbed.com/2018/1/18...ll-development

Another announced
https://chicago.curbed.com/2018/4/17...yscraper-hotel

- 1,4220ft
- contains a 200-key luxury hotel,
- 439 rental apartments, 125 for-sale condominiums,
- and 430 parking spaces.

Another
https://chicago.curbed.com/2018/1/24...ent-renderings

Another
https://chicago.curbed.com/2018/4/9/...ruction-update

- The building’s 40,000 square feet of amenity space includes
- a landscaped pool deck,
- fitness center,
- library, music conservatory,
- formal dining room,
- spa,
- a Himalayan salt therapy room.

Some are under construction I won't go into. Seems more plain, sleek and glass has Chicago going more Toronto ....

[mhays25]

I'm not reading most of that but yeah parking podiums suck the life out. Even if adjacent garages are even worse.

[fusion2]

Originally Posted by DavePa

Some are under construction I won't go into. Seems more plain, sleek and glass has Chicago going more Toronto ....

I can separate city here. I think it is probably fair to say you can't broad brush stroke any city for having all good or all bad highrise development. What I think is fair to say however, is that there are varying degrees of success developers have creating a building that works well with the streetscape and actually creates and enhances vibrancy. That said, a podium with parking is a disaster. I'd rather have a podium or even a building that is mediocre, but at least has some shops, restaurants and the like at its base because they are built for people not machines.

As a matter of fact, I find the appeal of living in a building in a DT environment is to shed owning a vehicle. Ideally you would live and work in the DT core. Shops, markets, bars, recreation should all be accessible by foot or mass transit.

[BigLake]

podiums suck but > surface parking lots in high density urban environments. They're going the way of the dodo bird in Chicago, thank goodness.

[DavePa]

Originally Posted by fusion2

I can separate city here. I think it is probably fair to say you can't broad brush stroke any city for having all good or all bad highrise development. What I think is fair to say however, is that there are varying degrees of success developers have creating a building that works well with the streetscape and actually creates and enhances vibrancy. That said, a podium with parking is a disaster. I'd rather have a podium or even a building that is mediocre, but at least has some shops, restaurants and the like at its base because they are built for people not machines.

As a matter of fact, I find the appeal of living in a building in a DT environment is to shed owning a vehicle. Ideally you would live and work in the DT core. Shops, markets, bars, recreation should all be accessible by foot or mass transit.

All this Chicago's core has with podiums. Seems this old notion on podiums on bland parking garages with nothing else street level is not getting through. I posted examples and not sinking in. Done right they work just fine.

If you find Chicago sub-par for them... you can keep promoting Toronto is superior to every US city but NYC including its high-rises. But you might get some arguments.

Point was still.... Chicago continues its recognition of its downtown with use of podium towers continuing to be the top choice. So be it if its mediocre if vibrancy continues all with the luxury of a car to use on trips outside the city in its parking condo of its own etc. for their residents. Sorry I mentioned a certain city as usual.

Again .... convenience of mass transit, walkability, use of green in fronts where it can be squeezed in, embracing the older structures around them to maintain street-level they offer and the podium itself from eateries to a grocery market at its base. Clearly all is working in what it is getting built.

Certainly, not killing its vibrancy. I get Toronto rocks for you and is more the level of NYC then Chicago for you...... Chicago still rocks for me. Clearly, not losing any vibrancy choosing podium-style done better today then in the past.

Guess if podiums kill..... Chicago's downtown is in decline by all being built.

[mhays25]

It can still be vibrant, just less than it would otherwise be. And certainly not as pleasant.

[Chicago60614]

^ Yeah, I love Chicago and love living here but HATE almost all of the podiums built during the past 15 years. They're ugly, take away vibrancy and are just bad for urbanity. I really wish they would put parking underground or have it more on the interior/back of the lots and wrap it in retail or units on the front.

I'll defend a lot on Chicago, but absolutely not the podiums as they exist. Of course that's just a tiny part of Chicago's core - overall the core is nothing like it was even 10 let along when I moved here 17 years ago, the downtown area has grown and gotten SO much better.

[DavePa]

Originally Posted by Chicago60614

^ Yeah, I love Chicago and love living here but HATE almost all of the podiums built during the past 15 years. They're ugly, take away vibrancy and are just bad for urbanity. I really wish they would put parking underground or have it more on the interior/back of the lots and wrap it in retail or units on the front.

I'll defend a lot on Chicago, but absolutely not the podiums as they exist. Of course that's just a tiny part of Chicago's core - overall the core is nothing like it was even 10 let along when I moved here 17 years ago, the downtown area has grown and gotten SO much better.

Yes, key is despite podiums ..... it just keeps getting better. Just my point wasn't the greatness of podiums. But they are NOT a kill-all scenario by far.... at least if done with some retail street-level as virtually ALL newer ones incorporate. Podiums seem pretty standard north of the Loop and South Loop. Most new are.

Doubtful Chicago would pass a ordinance like Toronto forcing parking under a high-rise. Nor our booming sunbelt cities. But those living in them are probably very satisfied.... I can only wish I could afford most today. I'd have no problem choosing one.

I would still stand by my comment that for sunbelt cities .... that are not becoming carfree in mass transit built (degrees especially light rail yes)? I'd still be for them done right.... vs still adding a separate garage. But seems like Houston for one isn't going to change building high-rises in its core with additional separate garages.... even killing intersections with them. The high-rises themselves are nice. But don't expect much street-level but a nice building.

I'm not a fan of ultra-urban densities myself, with every street a virtual main street. Nor super-grittiness left intact. I like how Chicago completely restores its old buildings inside and outside and polishes it off. That shows in overall aesthetics too. Clean with green too is clearly a goal there. I love how filled with flowers the outdoor seating blossoms spring thru late fall in Chicago.... adds class. They sure spare nothing in utilizing flowers.... and the city maintaining so much if it that it adds too.

[That_One_Guy]

OK, I’ll bite — what exactly are parking podiums? Am I the only one that never heard the term before? Is it just another name for those multi-level parking garages like you find near airports? Because a Google search only shows me pictures of those and articles about Downtown LA.

[jessemh431]

Originally Posted by That_One_Guy

OK, I’ll bite — what exactly are parking podiums? Am I the only one that never heard the term before? Is it just another name for those multi-level parking garages like you find near airports? Because a Google search only shows me pictures of those and articles about Downtown LA.

It's the first few (or many) floors of a high rise. Sometimes there is ground floor retail, other times not. Then some floors dedicated to parking. The parking provides a "podium" for the rest of the actual building to stand on. The podiums can be embarrassingly large also, especially in LA so DTLA coming up in searches makes sense. The one at the RoxSan (corner of Roxbury and Santa Monica) building in downtown Beverly Hills is I believe 8 floors and then only 4 floors of office space above. I believe. I haven't been there in years but the 8 floors of parking always bothered me.