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This topic of college students in Boston being counted/not being counted in the census has raged on for years on c-d. Anyone know why? Is it that people don't want to believe the Census Bureau's methodology? Is it a lack of understanding of the process? Confusion? Has anyone written/called the Census Bureau to clarify directly?
I looks like the evidence supports the Census Bureau's claim that it counts students in their dorms. I also see that there is population in the census tracts that cover dorms. Maybe people don't want to accept the notion that a great many students (thousands/tens of thousands?) who populate the streets of Boston during the day don't live in Boston. They can't be counted in Boston population numbers (daytime population excluded) if they don't live there.
In DC, there are census tracts that cover the universities separately. In those census tracts, there is population where students are living in dorms.
This whole topic seems like it could be explained/clarified easily by someone in the know with evidence and references (it looks like plenty posters have) but yet this board continues to rage on about it.....
According to the census 15,344 people live in Storrs, CT, according to UConn, which is in Storrs claims to have 18,500 students on campus. The census says that they count students but the numbers don't add up. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges...3/student-life
According to the census 15,344 people live in Storrs, CT, according to UConn, which is in Storrs claims to have 18,500 students on campus. The census says that they count students but the numbers don't add up. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges...3/student-life
This is consistent with the on campus housing figures.
Quote:
The number of undergraduate and graduate students at UConn has increased from 17,666 to 25,653, excluding the colleges of law, medicine and dentistry, since the fall of 1996, according to the MNPG’s website. Only 70 percent, or 11,295, of UConn’s 18,826 undergraduate students in Storrs live on campus,according to the 2016 UConn Fact Sheet.
The remaining 30 percent of undergraduates, and all 6,827 graduate students, have crowded into apartments and single family rentals, disrupting Mansfield and neighborhoods in the surrounding area, Shafer said.
Every city has its unpopulated areas. Boston has an Airport and Seaport and uninhabited Harbor Islands and parks too. In fact if you take out the Iskands, Airport and SeaportBoston probably has about 38 sq miles.
Also people live on Military Bases
The reality of vibrancy in an area really has nothing to do with population density. It has to do with retail and mixed use development. There are places with high population density, but the streets are dead because they lack retail. You only need moderate density in the 40k-50k people per square mile range to have vibrant neighborhoods if retail exists.
DC has more of it spread across the core, so it’s more vibrant because of that. That gap will increase every year for the next 20 years as DC approaches 1 million people. Our development doesn’t get gobbled up downtown or in one or two mega developments. Many people look at height limits as a disadvantage, however, it’s the reason DC’s core is sprawling more and more every year. We can’t built up, so we infill and build out. Most of DC proper will be considered the core in 20 years which will make DC unique compared to other American cities that mainly just build even taller buildings downtown instead of building up the lower density parts of their cities. DC’s core will grow between 30%-40% by 2040 to areas in Ward 5, Ward 7, and 8 Ward.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 08-18-2018 at 12:30 PM..
Obviously, you strongly believe they are counted. I think a fair interpretation of the evidence does not support that position.
My Evidence for students being counted: 1) census methodology 2) census tracts that cover dorms have population 3) college dorm estimates match census group quarter estimates 4) bra studies that show impact of college students on pop estimates.
full argument with independent facts: //www.city-data.com/forum/city-...l#post52833959
Your rebuttal to my facts: ??
Your Evidence against students being counted: comparing total enrollment figures to the 18-24 population.
My rebuttal to your case:
1) Not all college students are 18-24
2) Not all college students live in Boston (according to BRA figures)
Full argument with facts to back up my claims: //www.city-data.com/forum/city-...l#post52835200
Initially unsure of the answer, after carefully reviewing the evidence, I now feel very comfortable saying most college students are counted in census figures. You don't and I don't think there is anything that can convince you to change your mind.
Clearly, we will just have to agree to disagree.
i also dont really know but the examples of texas, penn state, michigan state are public schools so most students are local.
the globe did an article about how most boston area schools have high percentages of international students.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanley-88888888
a joke i heard about bc is that it is neither a college nor is it located in boston.
The reality of vibrancy in an area really has nothing to do with population density. It has to do with retail and mixed use development. There are places with high population density, but the streets are dead because they lack retail. You only need moderate density in the 40k-50k people per square mile range to have vibrant neighborhoods if retail exists.
DC has more of it spread across the core, so it’s more vibrant because of that. That gap will increase every year for the next 20 years as DC approaches 1 million people. Our development doesn’t get gobbled up downtown or in one or two mega developments. Many people look at height limits as a disadvantage, however, it’s the reason DC’s core is sprawling more and more every year. We can’t built up, so we infill and build out. Most of DC proper will be considers the core in 20 years which will make DC unique compared to other American cities that mainly just build even taller buildings downtown instead of building up the lower density parts of their cities. DC’s core will grow between 30%-40% by 2040 to areas in Ward 5, Ward 7, and 8 Ward.
The reality of vibrancy is it has to do with retail + density....
Why is only dc growing...Boston has mixed use going up in seaport, south end, north station Southie, Fenway, development plans for dorchester etc etc..Boston 2030 plans for more than 50000 units which will cause the 48 sq mi city population to grow well over 700,000 never mind what’s going on in Cambridge, somerville and elsewhere..I know dc is growing but I really don’t see it leaving Boston in the dust
The reality of vibrancy is it has to do with retail + density....
Why is only dc growing...Boston has mixed use going up in seaport, south end, north station Southie, Fenway, development plans for dorchester etc etc..Boston 2030 plans for more than 50000 units which will cause the 48 sq mi city population to grow well over 700,000 never mind what’s going on in Cambridge, somerville and elsewhere..I know dc is growing but I really don’t see it leaving Boston in the dust
My reference is related to low density neighborhoods becoming high density but with retail. Established neighborhoods completely changing becoming urban like the core. Mixed use development across the city far from the core in master planned development is not something being seen in most cities. It’s mainly concentrated. Look at development in Boston. How many neighborhoods are seeing massive office/residential/retail development?
As for growth, yes Boston is growing, but not like DC is. Boston has grown by about 68,000 people since 2010. DC has grown by about 100,000 people since 2010. You can do the math estimating growth over the next 20 years. Those extra 100,000 people and the development they live in has made a big difference in the city. I think that’s evident seeing how people would not have considered DC more vibrant 8 years ago, but now, some people think it is more vibrant or atleast even with Boston. With the development in the pipeline for DC across the city, the changes will be even more dramatic over the next 8 years.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 08-18-2018 at 01:43 PM..
[quote=MDAllstar;52840207]My reference is related to low density neighborhoods becoming high density but with retail. Established neighborhoods completely changing becoming urban like the core. Mixed use development across the city far from the core in master planned development is not something being seen in most cities. It’s mainly concentrated. Look at development in Boston. How many neighborhoods are seeing development.
As for growth, yes Boston is growing, but not like DC is. Boston has grown by about 68,000 people since 2010. DC has grown by about 100,000 people since 2010. You can do the math estimating growth over the next 20 years. Those extra 100,000 people and the development they live in has made a big difference in the city. I think that’s evident seeing how people would not have considered DC more vibrant 8 years ago, but now, some people think it is more vibrant or atleast even with Boston. With the development in the pipeline for DC across the city, the changes will be even more dramatic over next 8 years
I just don’t see dc catching Boston, Cambridge Somerville density given that bos already ahead and growing. Mixed use developments are going up in Brighton, Dorchester, outskirts of Cambridge, Jamaica plain, Southie, seaport making many high density neighborhoods higher density. Boston Cambridge Somerville is already at 900000 in less than 60 sq miles and growing. I’m not cherry picking as Cambridge and Somerville are very much core neighborhoods and I’m still including leafy Boston neighborhoods like West Roxbury.
My reference is related to low density neighborhoods becoming high density but with retail. Established neighborhoods completely changing becoming urban like the core. Mixed use development across the city far from the core in master planned development is not something being seen in most cities. It’s mainly concentrated. Look at development in Boston. How many neighborhoods are seeing development.
As for growth, yes Boston is growing, but not like DC is. Boston has grown by about 68,000 people since 2010. DC has grown by about 100,000 people since 2010. You can do the math estimating growth over the next 20 years. Those extra 100,000 people and the development they live in has made a big difference in the city. I think that’s evident seeing how people would not have considered DC more vibrant 8 years ago, but now, some people think it is more vibrant or atleast even with Boston. With the development in the pipeline for DC across the city, the changes will be even more dramatic over next 8 years
I just don’t see dc catching Boston, Cambridge Somerville density given that bos already ahead and growing. Mixed use developments are going up in Brighton, Dorchester, outskirts of Cambridge, Jamaica plain, Southie, seaport making many high density neighborhoods higher density. Boston Cambridge Somerville is already at 900000 in less than 60 sq miles and growing. I’m not cherry picking as Cambridge and Somerville are very much core neighborhoods and I’m still including leafy Boston neighborhoods like West Roxbury.
I don’t think anybody in this thread is talking about density. People are referring to vibrancy. As you can see, even though DC currently has lower density than Boston, a lot of people already think it’s either more vibrant in the core or just as vibrant. That is because DC’s core is larger and still sprawling even farther. It will really be a different animal when all is said and done. Think about Seaport for a moment. If the buildings were capped in height, it would be even larger in area. Then areas around it would build up too and everywhere would become more vibrant. All ships rise if you will.
Unless Boston starts building the amount of housing DC does, I don’t see how Boston can keep up. Where are all the new people supposed to live that will allow Boston to grow as fast as DC all of a sudden?
DC is a product of its decay. A city that decayed as much as DC left so much vacant land that the city is being transformed into what it is today. Boston didn’t decay to a bunch of vacant lots like DC so it can’t all of a sudden start over from scratch and build 9-14 story highrises all over the city. Philadelphia is another city that comes to mind that is built up in Center City, but very low rise rowhouse across almost the whole city outside of a few areas. DC is headed the opposite way with apartment high-rises going up in all four corners out of neccesity. DC would not have been able to do this without the 1968 riots and urban renewal. That’s just a fact. It’s like the city has a blank canvas.
I do think that DC upzoning it’s vacant areas like the Wharf, Buzzard Point, Capital Riverfront, NOMA, Union Market, U street, H Street, 14th Street, 7th Street, 9th Street, Poplar Point, Northwest One, Mt. Vernon Triangle, Parkside, St. Elizabeth, Walter Reed, Old Solders Home, Skyland Town Center, East River Point, Hill East, Ivy City, New City, Rhoad Island Avenue, and Benning Road has allowed DC to do what it’s doing. The type of change I just described would change any city.
All the areas I just listed above were parking lots, vacant lots, suburban strip malls, or auto body shops etc.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 08-18-2018 at 02:23 PM..
I don’t think anybody in this thread is talking about density. People are referring to vibrancy. As you can see, even though DC currently has lower density than Boston, a lot of people already think it’s either more vibrant in the core or just as vibrant. That is because DC’s core is larger and still sprawling even farther. It will really be a different animal when all is said and done. Think about Seaport for a moment. If the buildings were capped in height, it would be even larger in area. Then areas around it would build up too and everywhere would become more vibrant. All ships rise if you will.
Unless Boston starts building the amount of housing DC does, I don’t see how Boston can keep up. Where are all the new people supposed to live that will allow Boston to grow as fast as DC all of a sudden?
No it wouldn't because it backs up against the Ocean, an actual Seaport, a Channel and an actual neighborhood by the time everything is built it will be built out to basically the cap.
Also Aparetment=/= all new housing
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