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I meant "major" in the sense of tier 1 cities (NYC, LA, Chicago, SF, Philly, Boston). I used that term/descriptor because you wouldn't expect Baltimore to have a booming skyline at the level of those cities. But the fact that it doesn't even have one 600+ signature building makes its skyline look puny and small for a big city. Even OKC and Austin (much smaller cities) have a 600+ ft building.
Baltinire had more people Than Boston as recently as 2011/12
I don't see how Jacksonville is a very decentralized metro in terms of its CBD and the skyline. You have the beach communities and St. Augustine which are obviously their own thing, but they are much more recreational and touristy in nature and contribute nothing to the skyline.
Well I can see the argument that it is quite decentralized because the St Johns Town Center area (about 15 miles southeast of downtown, sprawling suburban campuses) has as many workers as downtown does. If you moved those 50,000 jobs to downtown the skyline could easily double in size, and in fact likely support far more retail and housing inventory than it does now.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
Jacksonville is pretty unique in that the St. John's River actually splits the urban core instead of serving as a convenient boundary between two different municipalities/counties. Thus, you have the main northbank cluster which is most often depicted as the city's skyline and includes the Main Street bridge towers, but that vantage point completely excludes the smaller southbank cluster. When the city's skyline is viewed from a distance, both clusters contribute to the visual but once you're actually in downtown, it's broken up.
The St John's is also noticeably wide in this region. Just south of downtown I believe the river spans a few miles, so that looking from one side of an urban core neighborhood to another almost looks like an island in the distance. Downtown from the Northbank to the Southbank isn't that wide, but it is enough as to really divide the areas.
There is also a small cluster of towers in the Brooklyn area directly west of the Northbank, creating a triangle of clusters if you will. Jax's clusters are small though and not particularly tall, as you can see in your Southbank photo. I tried to provide an image of the Brooklyn cluster but it seems particularly hard to google. "Brooklyn skyline" obviously yields images of the NYC borough but as soon as I add Jacksonville it defaults to the northbank just as you said. Here is a decent image of both northbank and Southbank, although it appears to me that at least one Southbank tower is blocked from this vantage point and there are two other towers to the right of this image that are cut out. https://www.flickr.com/photos/miamiboy/24364894746/
Also interesting to note that Jax had the tallest building in the entire state as recently as 1981. Of course now Miami dominates that list. About 3 years ago there was a proposal to build a new state's tallest in downtown Jax but that was largely considered a pipe dream and it never got past the proposal stage.
Exactly. This overemphasis on height is somewhat baffling to me.
This or this doesn't come across as "puny" and "small" to me at all.
Same here. I see "XXXXX is lacking in skyline" too often, when it's clear that people are using height as a requirement. I personally think height is overrated.
Well I can see the argument that it is quite decentralized because the St Johns Town Center area (about 15 miles southeast of downtown, sprawling suburban campuses) has as many workers as downtown does. If you moved those 50,000 jobs to downtown the skyline could easily double in size, and in fact likely support far more retail and housing inventory than it does now.
I'll defer to you on this point, but practically every sizable metropolitan area has a jobs-rich suburban area like that. It doesn't seem like Jacksonville is any worse than most of the others here.
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The St John's is also noticeably wide in this region. Just south of downtown I believe the river spans a few miles, so that looking from one side of an urban core neighborhood to another almost looks like an island in the distance. Downtown from the Northbank to the Southbank isn't that wide, but it is enough as to really divide the areas.
There is also a small cluster of towers in the Brooklyn area directly west of the Northbank, creating a triangle of clusters if you will. Jax's clusters are small though and not particularly tall, as you can see in your Southbank photo. I tried to provide an image of the Brooklyn cluster but it seems particularly hard to google. "Brooklyn skyline" obviously yields images of the NYC borough but as soon as I add Jacksonville it defaults to the northbank just as you said. Here is a decent image of both northbank and Southbank, although it appears to me that at least one Southbank tower is blocked from this vantage point and there are two other towers to the right of this image that are cut out. https://www.flickr.com/photos/miamiboy/24364894746/
Also interesting to note that Jax had the tallest building in the entire state as recently as 1981. Of course now Miami dominates that list. About 3 years ago there was a proposal to build a new state's tallest in downtown Jax but that was largely considered a pipe dream and it never got past the proposal stage.
I knew there was another smaller cluster of towers on the northbank somewhere but was too lazy to look it up lol. There's also a skyline I came across years ago that views it from the west I believe and shows off the breadth of the city's total skyline. But here are some I just ran across and it helps sometimes if you Google panorama instead of skyline.
I especially like the first one. I had to actually enlarge it to make sure it was really Jacksonville.
What I've discovered about waterfront cities in particular is that their tallest towers tend to be closest to the water but the "backside" hides a good amount of density.
Hartford is more like 1,200,000 people, so you mean it looks small for its size? Unless you're talking about population within city limits...but that has little to do with any skyline.
I think it's about in line with a city its size.
Which is why I specified "the city itself" ,which unfortunately, as you should know, is what every American who doesn't use City Data thinks is most important. You say bigger city, they immediately think a bigger skyline. So far from the truth. "bigger city" to most people means "more like New York City" lol.
Baltinire had more people Than Boston as recently as 2011/12
In about twice the land area which is why city limit populations aren't a very good measure when comparing cities because the urban development and commuting population of most cities extends beyond their borders. In 2010 when Baltimore had 620,961 in 80 square miles Suffolk County where Boston is located had 722,023 people in 58 square miles. In contrast that same year the Boston MSA had 4,552,402 people and the Balimore MSA had 2,710,489 people. If either of these cities has to small a skyline I would argue it is Boston with a much smaller/shorter skyline than many of it's peers like Philadelphia and San Francisco.
The first time I saw downtown Las Vegas, I was shocked at how anemic was. I really expected more/taller office towers.
You must understand Las Vegas. It's main industries are gambling, entertainment, and tourism. High skyscrapers tend to be concentrated in places where finance, technology, and manufacturing have long been the mainstays of the economy. This is why Cleveland, in spite of its population decline, has a memorable skyline.
Populations aren’t really the main drivers of skylines though. Business necessities are. Cities that saw their most growth in a postwar America have a strong undercurrent against building the skylines of yesteryears. Some have bucked the trend, but it’s not a coincidence you see the same profile for many of these cities.
Last edited by Heel82; 05-15-2019 at 01:09 PM..
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