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Pfffffft. There is almost no way in 20 years that LA, SF, or Seattle are out on top even if they hit their marks for their plans underway. LA and SF both take forever do to nimbys and SF has to deal with their broad gauge split due to BART. Seattle is trying, but even its two decade out plan has pretty small coverage. There is very little pathway for the the west coast cities and Portland to reach the top 5 in as short a time period as two decades.
If you think the NIMBYs are bad there.. try coming to Boston. Cant even erect a building over 800ft in areas that permit 1000ft ones. Literally the last 5 buildings over 700ft have been shot down and faced extreme backlash, surprised we got 1 Dalton at 742 ft.
However, gievn all plans go through on time, I could see all the West Coast cities coming out on top. Boston and NY are going too slow, and especially NYC and Philly ... have little plans to improve service. Boston is getting new trains and has a 15 Billion project in the pipes, so il give it that atleast. Still though. Im rooting for you West Coast.
in 20 years, (by quality.. not quantity, sorry MTA)
Top 10 Rail Only
1. Los Angeles
2. San Francisco
3. Seattle
4. Washington DC
5. Portland OR
6. Boston
7. Chicago
8. Philadelphia
9. New Jersey & PATH
10. Denver
You may not like MTA. But there is no way these cities would surpass it in 100 years let alone 20 years.
I like your list a lot! At least 1-9. Baltimore could belong there but it gets much murkier with Denver, Atlanta, and Minneapolis, imo, with an argument.
Dallas is another contender on that level. I'd like to think Atlanta is in the top 10 albeit at the bottom of the top 10.
DART manages the largest light rail system in the country. The only thing is the city is so spread out and that takes the bite out of transit effectiveness.
I refuse to believe any list that doesn't include Philadelphia. There aren't too many public transportation systems that are as good and as comprehensive as SEPTA is. As a whole, and among other things, Philadelphia has:
-A good percentage of the population that does not own a vehicle. About 30% of households within city limits do not own a car.
-Three subway lines (the El, Broad Street Line, and Broad-Ridge Spur) that cover portions of the northern, southern, western, and northeastern reaches of the city. Bus and trolley service fills in many of the gaps.
-An agency, only one of two in the US, that runs all five modes of transportation: heavy rail, light rail, commuter rail, bus, and electric trolleybus transportation.
-A fully-electrified, fully-integrated, through-running Regional Rail system, complete with 13 lines that cover the region. SEPTA's Regional Rail system is the only true unified commuter rail system in the US. On weekends, the maximum headway during non-peak hours is typically 90 minutes.
-24 hour service, including 24/7 service on certain routes.
-A 24/7 subway service to Center City from South Jersey, courtesy of PATCO. The only other city that has such a service is NYC, courtesy of PATH.
-Passes that convert to Anywhere Passes on the weekends, allowing one to ride anywhere within the system. For example, a TransPass excludes trips on the Regional Rail during the week. On the weekends, that TransPass can be used on the Regional Rail, valid for trips to any of the four zones.
While Philly DOES need more subway lines, SEPTA is significantly better than most PT systems across the nation. I'd rank SEPTA only behind the MTA (NYC), CTA (Chicago), and WMATA (DC) by a few hairs. The T (Boston) can't compete with SEPTA due to how early it shuts down (how can subway service end before 1AM on a Saturday night?! That's mindblowing!), and other systems simply can't compete with the breadth of SEPTA.
I refuse to believe any list that doesn't include Philadelphia. There aren't too many public transportation systems that are as good and as comprehensive as SEPTA is. As a whole, and among other things, Philadelphia has:
-A good percentage of the population that does not own a vehicle. About 30% of households within city limits do not own a car.
-Three subway lines (the El, Broad Street Line, and Broad-Ridge Spur) that cover portions of the northern, southern, western, and northeastern reaches of the city. Bus and trolley service fills in many of the gaps.
-An agency, only one of two in the US, that runs all five modes of transportation: heavy rail, light rail, commuter rail, bus, and electric trolleybus transportation.
-A fully-electrified, fully-integrated, through-running Regional Rail system, complete with 13 lines that cover the region. SEPTA's Regional Rail system is the only true unified commuter rail system in the US. On weekends, the maximum headway during non-peak hours is typically 90 minutes.
-24 hour service, including 24/7 service on certain routes.
-A 24/7 subway service to Center City from South Jersey, courtesy of PATCO. The only other city that has such a service is NYC, courtesy of PATH.
-Passes that convert to Anywhere Passes on the weekends, allowing one to ride anywhere within the system. For example, a TransPass excludes trips on the Regional Rail during the week. On the weekends, that TransPass can be used on the Regional Rail, valid for trips to any of the four zones.
While Philly DOES need more subway lines, SEPTA is significantly better than most PT systems across the nation. I'd rank SEPTA only behind the MTA (NYC), CTA (Chicago), and WMATA (DC) by a few hairs. The T (Boston) can't compete with SEPTA due to how early it shuts down (how can subway service end before 1AM on a Saturday night?! That's mindblowing!), and other systems simply can't compete with the breadth of SEPTA.
Fully agree with both of these. Any ranking putting SF 2nd and completely disregarding Philly is a joke.
in 20 years, (by quality.. not quantity, sorry MTA)
Top 10 Rail Only
1. Los Angeles
2. San Francisco
3. Seattle
4. Washington DC
5. Portland OR
6. Boston
7. Chicago
8. Philadelphia
9. New Jersey & PATH
10. Denver
Lol so pretty clean new lines that are not as usable and functional are going to become better than one of the broadest subway systems in the world? I'll take aging trains with slight delays here and there, but 24/7 access across all lines rather than shiny new vehicles. MTA is dirty also in part from all the riders it serves. Much easier to keep a few short lines with small trains clean and on time when they don't run 24/7 and have long headways. LA is literally extending its headways...
If you think the NIMBYs are bad there.. try coming to Boston. Cant even erect a building over 800ft in areas that permit 1000ft ones. Literally the last 5 buildings over 700ft have been shot down and faced extreme backlash, surprised we got 1 Dalton at 742 ft.
However, gievn all plans go through on time, I could see all the West Coast cities coming out on top. Boston and NY are going too slow, and especially NYC and Philly ... have little plans to improve service. Boston is getting new trains and has a 15 Billion project in the pipes, so il give it that atleast. Still though. Im rooting for you West Coast.
Meh, skyscrapers aren't necessities to make transit work fairly well or to have a dense population. That's somewhat different than getting pushback against multi-unit dwellings in the Bay Area or from the loss of parking spaces / requirement to build a bunch of parking in LA.
There are certainly several plans in the Bay Area and LA and there are even parts of it under construction, but they aren't going to get to Boston level let alone NYC level in terms of expansiveness or usefulness anytime soon. They also definitely won't pass by Chicago and DC anytime soon. Philadelphia is a maybe, but Philadelphia has a really easy pathway towards massively improving its transit system.
Lol so pretty clean new lines that are not as usable and functional are going to become better than one of the broadest subway systems in the world? I'll take aging trains with slight delays here and there, but 24/7 access across all lines rather than shiny new vehicles. MTA is dirty also in part from all the riders it serves. Much easier to keep a few short lines with small trains clean and on time when they don't run 24/7 and have long headways. LA is literally extending its headways...
In LA I was shocked to see that the trains only come in every 10 minutes during rush hour, and some main bus lines only come in every 30 minutes during rush hours as well.
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