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Agreed that Philadelphia remains the Rodney Dangerfield of big US cities, but:
I myself have taken to calling light rail systems that more closely resemble rapid transit than streetcars once out of the tunnels "light metro" systems to take note of that fact. Dallas, Seattle and San Diego have these, as does Buffalo (though that system reverses the usual pattern: it's on the surface downtown and in subway outside it); Boston has one such line (the Green Line D branch); Cleveland's Shaker Rapid comes up short; Philadelphia's lines go pure streetcar once they surface - and I do consider that an important operating distinction, for there's nothing rapid about that form of transit.
I wrote this article in 2013.
I'm curious as to why you believe(d in 2013) the Shaker Rapid "comes up short" in the rapid transit dept. It has 6 miles of totally grade separated ROW from downtown to the Shaker Square shopping center at the edge of town; its downtown station/terminal is below the surface, with a short subway and is under streets even though some say the station, itself, is not a true subway since the street and buildings were built over it on bridge supports. And even the surface portion of the Shaker Rapid (Blue and Green Lines) run on private ROW and never in streets, though they cross streets, both in the Shaker Square/Shaker Heights area as well as the downtown Waterfront Line portion, where grade crossings are protected with traditional railroad gates, cross bucks and flashing signals. (I may have asked you this, before, but my memory needs to be refreshed)
Funny how the OP gave such a strange list with no statement explaining his ranking.
1. NYC
2. DC
3. Chicago
(gap)
4. Philadelphia
5. Boston
6. SF
(gap)
7. Los Angeles
(gap)
8. Seattle
9. Portland
10. A few too many close contenders here.
I put Philly over Boston for weekend late night coverage and our phenomenal regional rail coverage.
Funny how the OP gave such a strange list with no statement explaining his ranking.
1. NYC
2. DC
3. Chicago
(gap)
4. Philadelphia
5. Boston
6. SF
(gap)
7. Los Angeles
(gap)
8. Seattle
9. Portland
10. A few too many close contenders here.
I put Philly over Boston for weekend late night coverage and our phenomenal regional rail coverage.
This is a pretty good list but I don't agree with Philly over Boston. Honestly, Philly and SF are pretty damn close themselves. Also, there isn't that big of a gap between LA and Seattle. Depending on your metrics, you could make a case for either. Both also have very ambitious fully-funded rail expansion plans over the next 2+ decades.
This is a pretty good list but I don't agree with Philly over Boston. Honestly, Philly and SF are pretty damn close themselves. Also, there isn't that big of a gap between LA and Seattle. Depending on your metrics, you could make a case for either. Both also have very ambitious fully-funded rail expansion plans over the next 2+ decades.
I think the gap between LA and Seattle should be a wider gap. In my experience I just find LA's superior on every level. Even on the weekends service seems to run less on many bus routes. And again it's mostly buses which seem to stop at every other block. Even LA's Rapid Transit buses only stop at major intersections. Plus bus service between DTLA and Santa Monica is 24hrs a day, 7 days a week. Rail service, there is no comparison.
Funny how the OP gave such a strange list with no statement explaining his ranking.
1. NYC
2. DC
3. Chicago
(gap)
4. Philadelphia
5. Boston
6. SF
(gap)
7. Los Angeles
(gap)
8. Seattle
9. Portland
10. A few too many close contenders here.
I put Philly over Boston for weekend late night coverage and our phenomenal regional rail coverage.
I actually saw that same ranking in an article online. It was specifically focused on Seattle moving up to #7 spot. However seeing SF at #2 and Baltimore in the top 10 made me take it with a grain of salt.
I think the gap between LA and Seattle should be a wider gap. In my experience I just find LA's superior on every level. Even on the weekends service seems to run less on many bus routes. And again it's mostly buses which seem to stop at every other block. Even LA's Rapid Transit buses only stop at major intersections. Plus bus service between DTLA and Santa Monica is 24hrs a day, 7 days a week. Rail service, there is no comparison.
Things have changed dramatically since 2011. There are more bus lines and they are much more efficient and the largely grade-separated rail system has expanded and will continue to expand. I’d argue pound for pound Seattle is at least equal to, if not better than, LA - or will be within a few years once Northgate Link, East Link, and Lynnwood Link open.
Things have changed dramatically since 2011. There are more bus lines and they are much more efficient and the largely grade-separated rail system has expanded and will continue to expand. I’d argue pound for pound Seattle is at least equal to, if not better than, LA - or will be within a few years once Northgate Link, East Link, and Lynnwood Link open.
Seattle’s system does better at being useful as evidenced by comparatively more people using it. But LA has a subway and that’s much better than mostly grade separated light rail. Both are expanding but LA is maybe finally getting to the more useful areas. LA’s ridership per mile will increase while Seattle’s May drop. They’re close enough that they’ll continue to be comparable although I think LA is still ahead.
Things have changed dramatically since 2011. There are more bus lines and they are much more efficient and the largely grade-separated rail system has expanded and will continue to expand. I’d argue pound for pound Seattle is at least equal to, if not better than, LA - or will be within a few years once Northgate Link, East Link, and Lynnwood Link open.
Pound for pound, LA drops dramatically in rankings, because LA is huge. However, LA does have a comparatively good network for its concentration of urban parts which is quite large though somewhat small for the extent of its metropolitan area. I think if we're judging on the basis of the total expanse of dense, urban areas that are connected via mass transit, and where the majority of mass transit usage is, LA does decently well in comparison to most US cities and I think better than Seattle right now.
Pound for pound, LA drops dramatically in rankings, because LA is huge. However, LA does have a comparatively good network for its concentration of urban parts which is quite large though somewhat small for the extent of its metropolitan area. I think if we're judging on the basis of the total expanse of dense, urban areas that are connected via mass transit, and where the majority of mass transit usage is, LA does decently well in comparison to most US cities and I think better than Seattle right now.
I'm impressed with what LA has done in 27 years. They've gone from nothing -- a gigantic city with only freeways, buses and a few regional Amtrak lines, to a fairly extensive multi-line system of HRT (2 lines), LRTs and commuter rail spanning the length and breadth of the region. Yes, there are holes, but that's true for most any rail network, even New York (if you look closely).... It is mostly street-level LRT -- most in private right-of-way but some in streets; some crossing streets and even stopping at traffic lights. in/near downtown, most of it, though, is grade separated -- elevated or in tunnel.
LRT makes sense for a generally lower density (with some very high-density pockets) and generally wide, generous streets. Even with the street level/intersecting service, LA Metro Rail lines are pretty fast -- ie, the Gold Line gets you from downtown Union Station to the heart of Pasadena in 20 minutes -- no small feat. And the interconnection of HRT, LRT and commuter rail, at Union Station, is pretty impressive.
I'm impressed with what LA has done in 27 years. They've gone from nothing -- a gigantic city with only freeways, buses and a few regional Amtrak lines, to a fairly extensive multi-line system of HRT (2 lines), LRTs and commuter rail spanning the length and breadth of the region. Yes, there are holes, but that's true for most any rail network, even New York (if you look closely).... It is mostly street-level LRT -- most in private right-of-way but some in streets; some crossing streets and even stopping at traffic lights. in/near downtown, most of it, though, is grade separated -- elevated or in tunnel.
LRT makes sense for a generally lower density (with some very high-density pockets) and generally wide, generous streets. Even with the street level/intersecting service, LA Metro Rail lines are pretty fast -- ie, the Gold Line gets you from downtown Union Station to the heart of Pasadena in 20 minutes -- no small feat. And the interconnection of HRT, LRT and commuter rail, at Union Station, is pretty impressive.
LA's transit is definitely underrated and doesn't get the attention it deserves. My wife took the Blue line from Long Beach to USC for class and that arrangement saved us quite literally a couple thousands of dollars in would be gas, registration, maintenance costs.
My biggest beef is the airport debacle. The gap between Green line and LAX is a complete embarrassment. Also, going from the airport to downtown seems like the most common sense line FIRST, not decades after the other lines are going. At best, the Green line will connect, but then necessitate a transfer.
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