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Same deal with Athens and Columbus. Looking at what you have within a 50 mile radius of each, there's a massive difference. Athens benefits from ATL's fill to the East. Columbus is considerably more rural..
Here are the 50 mile radius numbers:
Athens: 2M
Columbus: 694k
Hence, one could (sure there are exceptions) conclude that one area is more economically viable, provides more/better opportunities, etc. It is true though that population #s alone don't speak to the "quality" of the population. Which is why I like to google things I'm interested in and see how many are within driving distance to where I might live.
If I want to live within 5 miles of a Target, Whole Foods, Trader Joes, Lululemon etc etc, I want to know which metro offers more areas where I can meet those criteria. So population USUALLY correlates with more of all that.
When you're opening a new business and you want to understand your customer base, you don't look at MSA, you should always look at radius data. When a vendor decides if they want you to carry their product, they look at other businesses within a radius to determine if they'll sell to you.
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Originally Posted by bfmx1
I was helping to open a store at the Summit. Guess what all of Bayer's stats used? Radius. They give you this big rundown of population, density, median income, parks, restaurants, etc all within a certain radius. They don't mention Mountain Brook, MSA or CSA, because no one cares. A business owner makes his/her location decision based on radius, who/what is x distance around me.
Yes that also works for coastal cities. It gives the ocean a zero population, which is right. Now, normally the density around the coast is much greater so that mitigates the difference and you can also move your midpoint inland to get a better idea of the area as a whole if you want to take out the "dead space" effect.
A trade area isn't the same as what we normally consider to be a city or a metro though. You're just conflating everything.
A trade area isn't the same as what we normally consider to be a city or a metro though. You're just conflating everything.
Yeah... I know. But i'm not talking about what you normally consider to be a city or metro. I feel like you might not have read my other posts or you just don't like that I said your city of Birmingham isn't as large as the W/S area...
City and metro sizes are all over the map. I'm talking about the circle of influence. What's a better measure of "awesomeness" or (all things being equal which they never are) what's a better measure of which area has it going on more?
MSA only says "hmm yeah, let's include all these areas in our stats... pull from here, don't want that." Radius says, "who cares, what's around?"
I'm not really down with dumbing down the definition of urban to include suburban. They made a bad choice when they created urbanized areas as a name.
I think 1000ppsm (for most of the country) is pretty good at distinguishing what is baseline rural populations and areas that most development is induced by the nearby major city. Most places east of the Mississippi have “rural” counties in the 300ppsm range so once you get to about 1000ppsm most of that development is due to a nearby city
Is the US Census Bureau discussing which is better, or is it just about 20, or so, people out of the many, many millions in the US, trying to determine this. Because, if that's the case, good luck. I think it's just those who get a better number for their chosen city, who don't like the standard MSA comparisons. Please post, if you like the alternative better, if it decreases your city's population numbers, or only if it increases your numbers. I didn't know anything was broken, so why are we trying to fix this??
Is the US Census Bureau discussing which is better, or is it just about 20, or so, people out of the many, many millions in the US, trying to determine this. Because, if that's the case, good luck. I think it's just those who get a better number for their chosen city, who don't like the standard MSA comparisons. Please post, if you like the alternative better, if it decreases your city's population numbers, or only if it increases your numbers. I didn't know anything was broken, so why are we trying to fix this??
It started when people were debating which is "bigger" Birmingham AL or Winston Salem NC areas or metros.
MSA, Birmingham is 2x larger (also MSA sq miles is 2x larger)
Radius, Winston Salem is larger (slightly larger within 25miles radius, and 2x larger 50mile radius)
So the question is, which is a better tool to use to figure out which is "bigger" or which area is "better" or "offers more amenities/opportunities"
Yeah... I know. But i'm not talking about what you normally consider to be a city or metro. I feel like you might not have read my other posts or you just don't like that I said your city of Birmingham isn't as large as the W/S area...
Uh Birmingham is not "my city." I'm not from there, I've never lived there, and I have no personal connection to the city. My disagreement with you has nothing to do with any bias on my part, and I'd actually prefer to live in Winston-Salem (which I'm quite a bit more familiar with firsthand) over Birmingham. I simply find your logic and reasoning to be highly questionable.
Quote:
MSA only says "hmm yeah, let's include all these areas in our stats... pull from here, don't want that." Radius says, "who cares, what's around?"
Sounds to me like you don't actually know what an MSA is. It has its limitations but it's not a random metric. But my preferred metric in determining a city's true size is urbanized area anyway.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfmx1
This doesn't matter and doesn't address the point. The point being tested here is what's a better measure of "what's around here that is accessible to me?" If an MSA stretches 100 miles, that doesn't really tell me much about how life will be in the single point of residence.
Radius simply measures everything that is close by, or within a fixed circle.
I go back to the Birmingham vs Winston Salem comparison in another thread.
Birmingham's MSA is 2x the size of W/S in both population and land area. How is that a comparable measure when I'm trying to figure out how life would be like there.
Hardly apples to apples.
Therefore, one could conclude that W/S, with double the population within a 50 mile radius has more commerce, economic activity, opportunity, amenities, jobs, etc etc.
You're absolutely right, I think it's just two ways that people are perceiving your OP.
It started when people were debating which is "bigger" Birmingham AL or Winston Salem NC areas or metros.
MSA, Birmingham is 2x larger (also MSA sq miles is 2x larger)
Radius, Winston Salem is larger (slightly larger within 25miles radius, and 2x larger 50mile radius)
So the question is, which is a better tool to use to figure out which is "bigger" or which area is "better" or "offers more amenities/opportunities"
I used to live in Milwaukee. Milwaukee is very close to Chicago, and lost a chunk of its MSA to Chicago's MSA. Milwaukee's entire eastern border (Wisconsin's entire eastern border), is Lake Michigan. Not sure which would benefit Milwaukee more, but I haven't heard of Milwaukee trying to debate this. I'm sure Milwaukee didn't like losing a chunk of their MSA to Chicago, but in time, it's all going to be one big combined area. It is, what it is.
You're absolutely right, I think it's just two ways that people are perceiving your OP.
Being somewhere and being 45 miles from somewhere is not the same thing. If it was Worcester and Boston would have the same real estate prices.
50 (as the crows flys) miles is an absurd radius to determine city/metro size. Something like 20 miles is more reasonable.
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