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The point would be that Georgia doesn't seem to have much else to talk about than Atlanta. Atlanta didn't get to the national stage its on now until the 1990's. Pittsburgh had already been there since the 1880's and still gets stuff like G-20, etc.
Does Georgia have a secondary metro that compares to Pittsburgh? Savannah? Columbus?
In reality, it is Pennsylvania that doesn’t have much to talk about at all. Period.
In reality, Pennsylvania growth has been anemic even if its economy has gotten larger. Virtually every state has seen its economy grow, so Pennsylvania gets no brownie points for that. 100,000 people in 8 years isn’t particularly impressive given the fact that you’re poking at a budding state.
In reality, Philadelphia lags behind basically all of its Northeastern and New England peers (DC, NYC, and Boston) in terms of desirability. Just wanted to point out who its peers are so you don’t go trying to use Rochester, Providence, Portland, or Baltimore to make a case.
In reality, Pittsburgh is thought about as much as Tucson, Arizona or San Antonio, Texas. In other words, no one cares about it.
In reality, no one has cared about it since the 80s but that’s not what’s important.
What you will know is this...
Meanwhile down South, over 800,000 people have moved to Atlanta and GA over the past 8 years.
Atlanta was and still is the most economically dominant city in The Southeast. It is also a city that despite being infinitely smaller than Philadelphia and Pittsburgh throughout much of its existence has grown to completely obliterate Pittsburgh and is due to eclipse Philadelphia very soon. First population wise and then economically.
So Georgia doesn’t need an answer to Pittsburgh. Its capital is enough to handle both of Pennsylvania’s gloriously passé metros.
And for the record 14 million people visited Savannah in 2017. Pittsburgh had at least 12 million. This, vs 51 million for Atlanta and 43 million for Philadelphia. If GA doesn’t “much else to talk about” outside of Atlanta then neither does Pennsylvania outside of Philadelphia. Since you want to be petty.
Under no scenario are Georgia and Pennsylvania equal to me, because of this. PA is probably my favorite state and just resoundingly more diverse an experience than Georgia, an overrated hellhole of a state...
But under no scenario would I take Georgia over Pennsylvania, none...
Hellhole? Your ex must from GA. Heartbreak is a mutha... it will have spewing nonsense that not even YOU believe. Forget everyone else.
Outside of that, I wouldn’t argue against there being far more diversity in Pennsylvania. Look at its location. And no, GA and PA are not equal... yet. PA is still larger by 2.3 million people and nearly $200 billion economically. Give us time.
Of course Savannah does not compare to Pittsburgh at an urban/metro level, however it does have a huge draw and certainly is well talked about.
I also am willing to bet the lived experience in Philadelphia and Atlanta are quite different, especially within city proper. In Philly, you are much more likely to live in a row home, whereas much of Atlanta is green, detached living. In Philly, public transit is a way of life, whereas Atlanta is ever improving, it is still quite car centric. Philly truly centers around downtown, whereas Atlanta is multi nodal, with both downtown and midtown as major hubs. Etc. Yes, they are about equal in regards to generic metro offerings due to their size, but I think lifestyle is actually much different.
Also, I will be honest, I am not all too familiar with Georgia outside of Atlanta. Here in Pennsylvania, we have many destitute areas outside of our few growing metros. It would be disingenuous to imply the state is booming outside of Pittsburgh and South Central, Lehigh Valley and Philly, which actually makes up a relatively small amount of our geographic area (starting at 78 on the NJ/PA border, going southwest connecting to 81 ending at Maryland). The fall of coal and industry hit PA hard. Like many coal / "rust belt" states, we did not serve our rural areas well in adapting to a new economy and to green energy. I say this as someone who loves my state!
I appreciate your level headed responding and moderating. That poster is from San Diego and is in here to stir the pot. I’ve now taken notice. Children will be children, unfortunately.
Philly cheats as its metro is spread across 4 states in densely populated areas. Atlanta has no such areas to reach from. The population thing is also unfair as Atlanta is the only major city that supports strong gains in economic and population growth in the state. As you proved another poster's point, Pittsburgh contributes as another major city to boost Penn. Atlanta will likely surpass Philly in the next decade in a variety of objective areas.
Ah, yes, "the man-made line can't be crossed" argument, easily the dumbest argument to boost one city that you prefer over another. Countless cities straddle state lines, especially older cities, because state lines are often rivers and rivers create trade/economies. If that's the argument, NYC can't include NJ, Philly can't include NJ, DC can't include MD or VA, Cincinnati can't include KY, Louisville can't include IN, KCMO can't include KC Kansas, St. Louis can't include IL, Portland OR can't include WA, Omaha can't include IA, etc.
Why stop there? Might as well only look at the county that the city is in because that other county in the metro is across an imaginary man-made line also. How dare NYC include LI or Westchester. How dare Boston include anything outside of Suffolk. Philly should be ashamed for using Bucks/Delco/Montco/Chester. Bmore City can't use Bmore County. Chicago can only include Cook County. Atlanta can only use Fulton. I mean, because at the end of the day, it's across a man-made imaginary line that doesn't account for human movement and trade/economy and only imaginary lines are important.
In reality, it is Pennsylvania that doesn’t have much to talk about at all. Period.
In reality, Pennsylvania growth has been anemic even if its economy has gotten larger. Virtually every state has seen its economy grow, so Pennsylvania gets no brownie points for that. 100,000 people in 8 years isn’t particularly impressive given the fact that you’re poking at a budding state.
In reality, Philadelphia lags behind basically all of its Northeastern and New England peers (DC, NYC, and Boston) in terms of desirability. Just wanted to point out who its peers are so you don’t go trying to use Rochester, Providence, Portland, or Baltimore to make a case.
In reality, Pittsburgh is thought about as much as Tucson, Arizona or San Antonio, Texas. In other words, no one cares about it.
In reality, no one has cared about it since the 80s but that’s not what’s important.
What you will know is this...
Meanwhile down South, over 800,000 people have moved to Atlanta and GA over the past 8 years.
Atlanta was and still is the most economically dominant city in The Southeast. It is also a city that despite being infinitely smaller than Philadelphia and Pittsburgh throughout much of its existence has grown to completely obliterate Pittsburgh and is due to eclipse Philadelphia very soon. First population wise and then economically.
So Georgia doesn’t need an answer to Pittsburgh. Its capital is enough to handle both of Pennsylvania’s gloriously passé metros.
And for the record 14 million people visited Savannah in 2017. Pittsburgh had at least 12 million. This, vs 51 million for Atlanta and 43 million for Philadelphia. If GA doesn’t “much else to talk about” outside of Atlanta then neither does Pennsylvania outside of Philadelphia. Since you want to be petty.
Going just based on population and population growth isn't the greatest measurement IMO. I know Atlanta has good suburbs, but Philly's are known for being some of the best. IMO, Philly wins in both city/urban life and suburban life. Philly suburbs have amazing schools, though I'm sure Atlanta has some are really good as well.
Just for me, I find Philly to be the better metro. Atlanta is a Sun Belt boomtown, but that doesn't mean it's "better." And I do think it's important than PA can claim both Philly and Pittsburgh. You might not appreciate Pittsburgh, but it's a very interesting city that a lot of people love. It's an amazing city for the cost with a lot of local culture and good universities.
In between Philly and Pittsburgh, yes, it can be depressing and rundown in some parts. But I highly doubt that rural/small-town Georgia is any better. The geography of Central PA is beautiful with the hills/mountains everywhere. Also, some of the smaller towns are absolutely amazing. It's very hard to argue that any state could beat PA for its quality of smaller towns/cities for urban living. Lancaster, York, Harrisburg, State College, and others have a lot of charm and are nice places to live and are far more urban than one would expect.
Where GA goes win, though, is affordability in the better suburbs. Philly suburbs are quite expensive, and Atlanta suburbs would be must cheaper I'm sure. Also, having Savannah and the Atlantic Coast beaches is a plus that PA on its own misses out on. That said, Philly is still closer to beaches in NJ than Atlanta is to beaches within its state. PA can't claim them, but Philly still provides the better access and parts of the Jersey Shore are included in the Philly CSA even.
Also, while historically Philly lagged behind NYC and Boston, and DC has more recently become a hot city, that's not the future. Philly is on a very good upward trajectory with tons of development and numerous articles highlight the fact that Philly is attracting a lot of people out of the NYC MSA for its similar lifestyle, yet more affordable COL. The NYC-->Philly migration is, I believe, the largest migration of one city to another in the country. Literally everyone I know living in DC loves Philly equally. Philly's food scene is finally being recognized, with the city being named the best food city in the Northeast or the US or something like that. The city is attracting a lot of thew new immigrant populations that shaped NYC for the past several decades because it is the more affordable option, but still provides urban living. All of eastern PA is a hub of Caribbean Latin migration/immigration right now Puerto Rico and the DR. I get a very high proportion of Dominican Lyft drivers in Philly. Formerly depressed cities in eastern PA are coming back to life with the influx of these Puerto Ricans and Dominicans (Reading, York, and I'm sure others). SEPTA's future is looking good, as the suburban counties are flipping blue and will hopefully help improve the public transit in the region.
So while you might appreciate PA, Philly, or Pittsburgh, that's your personal choice. There is a lot going for the state with two amazing cities on either side and the eastern half of the state is doing phenomenally, regardless of any population losses.
And, at the end of the day, it's impossible to say that GA has better K-12 education or cuisine or geographic proximity. It's difficult to say its higher ed is better but at least it's a closer argument, and it's a balance for infrastructure since GA has better roads but PA has better public transit and likely better sustainability.
”Going just based on population and population growth isn't the greatest measurement IMO. I know Atlanta has good suburbs, but Philly's are known for being some of the best. IMO, Philly wins in both city/urban life and suburban life. Philly suburbs have amazing schools, though I'm sure Atlanta has some are really good as well.”
I’ve already touched on this and I can agree with it.
“Just for me, I find Philly to be the better metro.”
Exactly, for you. Issa no for me tho.
“Atlanta is a Sun Belt boomtown, but that doesn't mean it's "better."”
I never said that. I said what I said and that is it’s due to eclipse Philadelphia sooner than later in population and economic importance.
“And I do think it's important than PA can claim both Philly and Pittsburgh.”
As it should.
“You might not appreciate Pittsburgh, but it's a very interesting city that a lot of people love. It's an amazing city for the cost with a lot of local culture and good universities.”
I don’t feel one way or another about Pittsburgh. Just don’t mention it in the same breath as Atlanta as if they’re peers.
“In between Philly and Pittsburgh, yes, it can be depressing and rundown in some parts. But I highly doubt that rural/small-town Georgia is any better. The geography of Central PA is beautiful with the hills/mountains everywhere. Also, some of the smaller towns are absolutely amazing. It's very hard to argue that any state could beat PA for its quality of smaller towns/cities for urban living. Lancaster, York, Harrisburg, State College, and others have a lot of charm and are nice places to live and are far more urban than one would expect.”
Perhaps. Though I’d believe that Valdosta, Brunswick, Thomasville, Moultrie, Americus, Madison, Helen and others are as quaint and picturesque as rural small towns get.
“Where GA goes win, though, is affordability in the better suburbs. Philly suburbs are quite expensive, and Atlanta suburbs would be must cheaper I'm sure.”
Both have similar priced suburbs and both are affordable relative to their costal peers. Philadelphia suburbs being slightly more expensive than Atlanta’s. Both carry a lot of weight in the $1-$5 million range in the most desirable areas.
“Also, having Savannah and the Atlantic Coast beaches is a plus that PA on its own misses out on.”
Yep.
“That said, Philly is still closer to beaches in NJ than Atlanta is to beaches within its state. PA can't claim them, but Philly still provides the better access and parts of the Jersey Shore are included in the Philly CSA even.”
Exactly. Pennsylvania doesn’t have a coast, so it’s not worth mentioning.
“Also, while historically Philly lagged behind NYC and Boston, and DC has more recently become a hot city, that's not the future. Philly is on a very good upward trajectory with tons of development and numerous articles highlight the fact that Philly is attracting a lot of people out of the NYC MSA for its similar lifestyle, yet more affordable COL.”
Philadelphia is slow growing, it’s not dead and I acknowledged that.
“The NYC-->Philly migration is, I believe, the largest migration of one city to another in the country.”
It’s not enough to keep Atlanta from pushing it down the rankings.
“Literally everyone I know living in DC loves Philly equally.”
I love Nashville, as do most Georgians. I don’t love it enough to want to relocate there.
“Philly's food scene is finally being recognized, with the city being named the best food city in the Northeast or the US or something like that. The city is attracting a lot of thew new immigrant populations that shaped NYC for the past several decades because it is the more affordable option, but still provides urban living. All of eastern PA is a hub of Caribbean Latin migration/immigration right now Puerto Rico and the DR. I get a very high proportion of Dominican Lyft drivers in Philly. Formerly depressed cities in eastern PA are coming back to life with the influx of these Puerto Ricans and Dominicans (Reading, York, and I'm sure others). SEPTA's future is looking good, as the suburban counties are flipping blue and will hopefully help improve the public transit in the region.”
Good. This is great to hear.
“So while you might appreciate PA, Philly, or Pittsburgh, that's your personal choice. There is a lot going for the state with two amazing cities on either side and the eastern half of the state is doing phenomenally, regardless of any population losses.”
People leave for a reason. It’s much easier to ignore this than admit it.
“And, at the end of the day, it's impossible to say that GA has better K-12 education”
It doesn’t.
“or cuisine”
It does, to me.
“or geographic proximity.”
Depends on what’s important to you.
“It's difficult to say its higher ed is better”
It isn’t.
“but at least it's a closer argument”
It’s not. PA is superior.
“and it's a balance for infrastructure since GA has better roads”
Yep.
but PA has better public transit
Yep.
“and likely better sustainability.”
Because it’s not booming like GA nor does it have politicians as aloof as ours.
Ah, yes, "the man-made line can't be crossed" argument, easily the dumbest argument to boost one city that you prefer over another. Countless cities straddle state lines, especially older cities, because state lines are often rivers and rivers create trade/economies. If that's the argument, NYC can't include NJ, Philly can't include NJ, DC can't include MD or VA, Cincinnati can't include KY, Louisville can't include IN, KCMO can't include KC Kansas, St. Louis can't include IL, Portland OR can't include WA, Omaha can't include IA, etc.
Why stop there? Might as well only look at the county that the city is in because that other county in the metro is across an imaginary man-made line also. How dare NYC include LI or Westchester. How dare Boston include anything outside of Suffolk. Philly should be ashamed for using Bucks/Delco/Montco/Chester. Bmore City can't use Bmore County. Chicago can only include Cook County. Atlanta can only use Fulton. I mean, because at the end of the day, it's across a man-made imaginary line that doesn't account for human movement and trade/economy and only imaginary lines are important.
Well I don’t know about all that, but certainly when discussing Pennsylvania, Philly’s non-PA bits have to be redacted out for consistency.
I appreciate your level headed responding and moderating. That poster is from San Diego and is in here to stir the pot. I’ve now taken notice. Children will be children, unfortunately.
Thank you. Just know that I think both states have plenty to talk about and in fact make a good match up for the coming decade. Both Philadelphia and Atlanta are fantastic cities.
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