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Miami/Fort Lauderdale is built vertically along the coast. When you look at it from the water or any elevated highway or rooftop, it's a curtain of highrises that stretches from Miami proper going into cities north of it seamlessly. They are all stitched together, so-to-speak, by both development and density. Depending on your angle, you'll see dual skylines stretched across the horizon since the barrier islands have a long skyline parallel to the even longer skyline on the mainland. As you move away from the coast and more into the inland areas of the Miami/Fort Lauderdale metropolitan area, you'll see some of the highest uniform residential density in the United States for single-family homes. Homes with small and more compact lot sizes generally, and wall-to-wall midrise structures thrown into the mix as well. Miami/Fort Lauderdale is already either at or is in the process of reaching its physical limits on available land to develop in general but especially available land for single family homes, which is why the super grand majority of the new developments are all midrises at a bare minimum or more typically the highrises and skyscrapers. What you need to keep in mind is that the Southeast Florida metropolis is the second largest concentration of highrises in the United States, behind Greater New York, on a metropolitan scale and the majority of that is flanked along the coast thus visually giving you a vertical wall that runs along the coast for quite some time and distance and through two counties. This is increasingly the trend there as the area becomes more and more vertical over time and generally gets taller with its vertical build as well. I'd say that 90% or more of it is all pure infill within the bounds of the urbanized area already, thus the rapid increase in density for both the city and the entire area as a whole. They're built in the core where there are still some lots left to develop because the suburban areas with single family homes are already either maxed out or close to maxing out. There isn't much space left to build those anymore, which is why Port Saint Lucie is increasingly becoming more integrated into Southeast Florida's metropolis as a whole.
Miami's entire metropolitan area is only about 22 miles wide at its widest point. Generally it is even less than that number. Essentially from east to west the layout you have is ocean, highly developed barrier islands, the bays, the highly developed mainland, then the Everglades Swamp to the west. To the south is the Straits of Florida, yet another body of water. Going north from Miami-proper, the density stays mostly consistent until you get to Palm Beach County where it drops off a bit, still very high for suburban density in the United States but less so than what you see in Miami-Dade or Broward. From Homestead in the south to Jupiter in the north, it is 123 miles of continuously built up urbanization and in that space you have about 6.2 million people. The Jonathan Dickson State Park just north of Jupiter finally breaks the development before it begins again on the otherside with Port Saint Lucie. If you look at the CSA then Key West to the south and Sebastian to the north are the northern and southern terminus officially as ascribed and detailed by the CSA metric. That's 314 miles straight and the only developmental break is Jonathan Dickson State Park between Port Saint Lucie and Palm Beach County. As a CSA, Southeast Florida's Metropolis has around 7 million people today. That's what happens when the metropolitan area is only allowed to have a maximum width of 22 miles. It becomes elongated. So if you base your opinion on an area by car and want to experience size in that way, then you go from the southernmost point or at least from Miami proper and just drive north. You'll be driving over 100 miles and never once feel like you've left the urbanized area since development will still be following you until you get to Jonathan Dickson State Park. Or you can plan something even more extreme, go from Sebastian in the north all the way down to Key West in the south. As mentioned before in this post, that's 314 miles and the only break in development is that state park between Port Saint Lucie and Palm Beach County. That journey will take a full 5.5 hours to make that drive and you'll be nestled in the urbanization for nearly the entire duration of it (it becomes more smaller scaled and somewhat patchy and linear towards Key West and south of Homestead because land in general becomes small patches along the road). Still built up with plenty of towns and hamlets though, still quite populated all the way through. Think of this extreme journey as the spinal column of the Southeast Florida metropolis.
That being said, regardless of the verticality, density, and elongated nature of the area as a whole, on paper both of these metropolitan areas are said to be of similar size. Both as an MSA and as a CSA, with Miami being a little bit ahead in both categories. The Miami/Fort Lauderdale urban area, it should be noted, is a decent bit bigger by Demographia's Urban Area. A good deal bigger by the U.S. Urban Area, and a good deal bigger by the City-Population.de's Urban Agglomeration metric.
Atlanta's true size is gauged by a 360 degree circumference around the encompassing metropolitan area, which is centered around the city's core. In other words, how far you can go out in each direction of the compass. Due to geography Miami doesn't have that luxury but also due to geographic constraint, it also has the much denser metropolitan area and portfolio. This question will boil down to what sort of attributes people value more overall. These are not similar types of metropolitan areas, not in the least bit. They're polar opposites you could say but the end result comes close to the same for them both on population counts, at least on paper. As evidenced by their MSA and CSA populations being close enough to each other to be within the same general range with Miami only a bit ahead. This comparison is comparing different city typology, thus you will get different answers depending on an individual's own perspectives. One final point that you have to keep in mind is that these places also represent two different set-ups as well. One is decentralized whereas the other is centralized. Atlanta is the center of gravity of its entire metropolitan area. Miami is a key cog to the broader and more seamlessly urbanized metropolitan area but there are other cities in its metropolitan area that are also quite populated and developed as well, thus the decentralization. This may or may not make a difference to people.
With all of that written text you could only spare 3 or 4 lines that focused entirely on Atlanta?
Yet, in view of that fact, you expect your post is to be taken seriously at face value as being accurate in terms of a comparison?
I don't thinks so..
Atlantans love to boast about their tree canopy and vast, ordinate landscapes, but get heated when someone brings up how the heavy forestation significantly detracts from the city feel. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
This is mostly about perception, and the majority of votes agree Miami feels larger.
Actually I think you may not have a true perspective of how Atlantans really feel about their forest canopy.
It's not a case of us being butt-hurt about it's effect on how our urbanity is presented when we point out that it exists but rather a point of clarification and also pride that the canopy does exist & that it alters & enhances the visual imagery of Metro Atlanta. Metro Atlanta does truly have a remarkable blend of urban fabric stitched both within & above it's beautiful green canopy
Given the existence of the green canopy, the major nodes of towers in Atlanta that rise out of the trees are somewhat akin to the "Emerald City" imagery we know of from The Wizard of Oz". I recall my first viewing by auto of the Atlanta skyline rising out of the green as I approached it for the first time over 40 years ago. I will never forget that imagery!
The City of Atlanta alone has 3 such major nodes of skyscraper development that feature towers of 500' plus in height within it's borders while at the current time, there is one such suburban node with building heights of that magnitude.
The comparative physical layouts of metro Atlanta & metro Miami are about as dissimilar as can be found in 2 different urban locations. As such, the long linear development along the Florida coastline is indeed impressive. But then conversely so are the strong nodes of development in the 3 major urban districts in the City of Atlanta alone which does not at all speak to the newer major urban nodes that have grown up in even some far-flung suburban districts in the last 30 years.
I'm not here to knock the urban feel or imagery of Miami as compared to that of Atlanta. Instead I'll suggest that despite presenting extremely contrasting visual imagery of their own versions of urbanity & greenery, both metros are without a doubt the 2 most impressive-looking major cities in the southeastern U.S. and have no other regional challengers to that status.
Speaking personally, I treasure the green canopyof Atlanta & emphatically want to see vigorous laws in force & then enforced so as to ensure it's survival. The ongoing threats to it's survival are what I and my friends in Atlanta actually do get "heated" about.
And I hope that Miamians are also protective of their own natural environment as development there moves forward.
Location: Miami (prev. NY, Atlanta, SF, OC and San Diego)
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^ ^ ^
Your lips to God’s ears.. unfortunately, developers rule Miami—give them an inch, they will take a mile. Fortunately, Indian burial remains were found in the ground where 4 Icon/W Hotel towers exist in Brickell, otherwise 2 more towers would have been crammed into a space that serves as a nice Bayfront walk path/mini park-like area.
Walkscore does rank Miami as the 5th most walkable city in the country. There must be some activity on the streets, overall. Considerably higher in this category than Atlanta (77.6 to 47.8–including a score of 97 for Brickell) as well as slightly better scores in transit and bike friendly categories.
I think Walkscore is a good tool if used correctly .If its just used to answer the overall question:which is more walkable then you dont need Walkscore to tell you that Miami is overall.
Yet if you look at some of the individual neighborhoods, Atlanta does better than people give it credit for just looking at the overall score.
For instance:you cant convince me Miami is more walkable than Chicago.You just cant.I believe if it were a poll ,Miami would loose by a wider margin than the walkscores of both cities.
Id also throw in Seattle and DC as more walkable options.
There are FOUR neighborhoods out of 5 in Atlanta that have a walkscore over 90. Its top score neighborhood downtown, is 96 compared to Miami top score downtown at 91.
Miamis top 5 has only one score as I mentioned (downtown )with a score over 90 .
In other words Atlanta top 10 neighborhoods of which Walkscore ranked 160 as Atlanta is 138 sq miles vs Miami, Mimai had only 13 ranked and its only 56sq miles
Chicago has 126 @227 sq miles
Seattle 27 over 80 neighbohoods out 86 Its 83 sq miles(not including water ways)
Last edited by CleverOne; 03-24-2020 at 08:35 PM..
Atlanta feels larger metro area wise because it stretches a lot further out from downtown and in all directions, while Miami's physical growth is limited by the sea on one side and the Everglades on the other. It was smart for them to not drain the Everglades and build like New Orleans did. The Miami region does feel large if you include Fort Lauderdale and Palm Beach in the same metro area which not everyone includes but that would still be long and narrow.
Location: Miami (prev. NY, Atlanta, SF, OC and San Diego)
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thanks for the clarification....though I must be seeing different data because I found more than 1 neighborhood in Miami with a walkscore greater than 90--including as high as 99 (vs. the 91 you came up with), using specific addresses......my findings are as follows:
Brickell (where I live): 99
Downtown Miami (across a bridge from Brickell...can vary, but I will list the high): 96
Little Havana: 92
Coconut Grove: 93
Coral Gables (downtown, Miracle Mile with condo/apartment residences): 94...will be less in more SFH areas and suburbs of Gables such as Cocoplum, Gables Estates
Midtown: 91
Design District: 93
Wynwood: 97
South of Fifth (South Beach): 97
Mid beach : 91
When you get further away from the coast (ocean or bay), the scores get much lower--in line with earlier discussions on this topic.
Miami does have walkable neighborhoods--though with the exception of downtown/Brickell and Midtown/Design District they are not interconnected and require a drive from one neighborhood to another.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CleverOne
I think Walkscore is a good tool if used correctly .If its just used to answer the overall question:which is more walkable then you dont need Walkscore to tell you that Miami is overall.
Yet if you look at some of the individual neighborhoods, Atlanta does better than people give it credit for just looking at the overall score.
For instance:you cant convince me Miami is more walkable than Chicago.You just cant.I believe if it were a poll ,Miami would loose by a wider margin than the walkscores of both cities.
Id also throw in Seattle and DC as more walkable options.
There are FOUR neighborhoods out of 5 in Atlanta that have a walkscore over 90. Its top score neighborhood downtown, is 96 compared to Miami top score downtown at 91. Miamis top 5 has only one score as I mentioned (downtown )with a score over 90 .
In other words Atlanta top 10 neighborhoods of which Walkscore ranked 160 as Atlanta is 138 sq miles vs Miami, Mimai had only 13 ranked and its only 56sq miles
Chicago has 126 @227 sq miles
Seattle 27 over 80 neighbohoods out 86 Its 83 sq miles(not including water ways)
Last edited by elchevere; 03-24-2020 at 09:05 PM..
thanks for the clarification....though I must be seeing different data because I found more than 1 neighborhood in Miami with a walkscore greater than 90--including as high as 99 (vs. the 91 you came up with), using specific addresses......my findings are as follows:
Brickell (where I live): 99
Downtown Miami (across a bridge from Brickell...can vary, but I will list the high): 96
Little Havana: 92
Coconut Grove: 93
Coral Gables (downtown, Miracle Mile with condo/apartment residences): 94...will be less in more SFH areas and suburbs of Gables such as Cocoplum, Gables Estates
Midtown: 91
Design District: 93
Wynwood: 97
South of Fifth (South Beach): 97
When you get further away from the coast (ocean or bay), the scores get much lower--in line with earlier discussions on this topic.
Miami does have walkable neighborhoods--though with the exception of downtown/Brickell and Midtown/Design District they are not interconnected and require a drive from one neighborhood to another.
Location: Miami (prev. NY, Atlanta, SF, OC and San Diego)
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yes, and that is the overall score (78)--which we agree on and I initially referenced.
I went a step further and listed specific areas of Miami in my post above and came up with several neighborhoods with scores of greater than 90. Obviously, the areas not on the coast (and not all neighborhoods on the coast) bring its overall score down--but there is more than 1 neighborhood with a walk score of 90 in Miami though, again, they are not all walkably connected.
yes, and that is the overall score (78)--which we agree on and I initially referenced.
I went a step further and listed specific areas of Miami in my post above and came up with several neighborhoods with scores of greater than 90. Obviously, the areas not on the coast (and not all neighborhoods on the coast) bring its overall score down--but there is more than 1 neighborhood with a walk score of 90 in Miami though, again, they are not all walkably connected.
You didnt see what I meant.It haa ALL the neighborhoods that they ranked all listed by their scores. Scroll down.
Miami had less than 20 neighborhoods totaled listed
yes, and that is the overall score (78)--which we agree on and I initially referenced.
I went a step further and listed specific areas of Miami in my post above and came up with several neighborhoods with scores of greater than 90. Obviously, the areas not on the coast (and not all neighborhoods on the coast) bring its overall score down--but there is more than 1 neighborhood with a walk score of 90 in Miami though, again, they are not all walkably connected.
The scores are listed under "Miami Neighborhoods"
It has then all listed
Miami Neighborhoods
Rank Name Walk Score Transit Score Bike Score Population
1
Downtown
91 94 76 34,134
2
Wynwood-Edgewater
88 63 76 19,762
3
Little Havana
87 62 66 53,409
4
Overtown
81 82 73 10,005
5
Little Haiti
78 52 71 28,603
6
Coral Way
77 52 70 58,691
7
West Flagler
76 48 58 45,933
8
Allapattah
76 57 62 41,687
9
Upper Eastside
75 50 60 12,354
10
Northeast Coconut Grove
74 49 79 11,246
11
Flagami
68 44 55 52,236
12
Model City
64 51 60 22,412
13
Southwest Coconut Grove
62 42 63 8,041
You listed a specific address score in a section of neighborhoods.They use those numbers for each specific section in that neighborhood to come up for a total composite score
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Miami or Atlanta..
