Numbers 11-15 US Cities (largest, population, metropolitan, people)

[Howest2008]

Originally Posted by newgensandiego

Phoenix:
- State capital, largest city in SW, medium-sized airport hub, sizeable GDP, sports teams

San Diego:
- Four globally significant industries (defense, telecommunications, biotech/lifesciences, trade), 4th largest binational region in world + busiest border crossing, comparable GDP to Phoenix (but only if excluding 2.1M people...so not really), international hub for tech/innovation, better universities with more impact than Phoenix.

They seem pretty even to me--important in different ways. But ultimately I think San Diego's binational economy, military complex, and globally-relevant innovation sector have far greater importance than Phoenix being a big deal in Arizona.

Also, you aren't "overselling Phoenix". You've literally only mentioned sports teams and population. If anything, you are underselling it. That's why I specifically mentioned media market and airport hub. Because you haven't even made a solid argument on your own.

The only reason why Im not pulling for San Diego CA is it's ( Weak Fortune 500 Presence) ...It only has 2 and 1 is on its way out the door..

[Howest2008]

Originally Posted by Gaylord_Focker

Phoenix ahead of Denver.

You would think that Phoenix would be ahead of Denver by sheer size but Phoenix has a very weak corporate business community. Phoenix only has 6 Fortune 500 Corporations....

[newgensandiego]

Originally Posted by Howest2008

The only reason why Im not pulling for San Diego CA is it's ( Weak Fortune 500 Presence) ...It only has 2 and 1 is on its way out the door..

This isn't really a comparison of heavyweights...so I'm not sure it even matters. MSP has ~16 Fortune 500 companies, including numerous household names. MSP also is home to the largest privately held company.

For comparison, San Diego has 2 and Phoenix has 6, all of which are pretty much unknown outside their industries. Both lists are pretty underwhelming, so it makes more sense to stick with industry prominence and importance. San Diego is unquestionably ahead in this metric.

[g500]

Let me redo mine yet again (bumped Charlotte down [I think it would be #21], and replaced with Pittsburgh)
1. NYC
2. LA
3. Chicago
4. DC
5. SF
6. Boston
7. Houston
8. Philadelphia
9. Atlanta
10. Dallas
11. Miami
12. Seattle
13. Detroit
14. Phoenix
15. Minneapolis
16. Denver
17. San Diego
18. Baltimore
19. St. Louis
20. Pittsburgh

Next would be (NOT in order): Portland, Sacramento, Austin, San Antonio, Tampa, Orlando, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Charlotte, Indianapolis (also maybe Kansas City, Nashville, Columbus). Again, not in order.

To be fair, the list gets crazier and crazier after #12 IMHO. Think of it like an exponential function where x-axis are criteria (like GDP, population, and travel, etc.) and y-axis is something like "importance score". The y-axis scores (values) become much closer together as x approaches zero. Which means, the list becomes increasingly subjective.

[YIMBY]

11. Miami
12. Seattle
13. Minneapolis
14. Detroit
15. Phoenix

[g500]

Originally Posted by g500

Let me redo mine yet again (bumped Charlotte down [I think it would be #21], and replaced with Pittsburgh)
1. NYC
2. LA
3. Chicago
4. DC
5. SF
6. Boston
7. Houston
8. Philadelphia
9. Atlanta
10. Dallas
11. Miami
12. Seattle
13. Detroit
14. Phoenix
15. Minneapolis
16. Denver
17. San Diego
18. Baltimore
19. St. Louis
20. Pittsburgh

Next would be (NOT in order): Portland, Sacramento, Austin, San Antonio, Tampa, Orlando, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Charlotte, Indianapolis (also maybe Kansas City, Nashville, Columbus). Again, not in order.

To be fair, the list gets crazier and crazier after #12 IMHO. Think of it like an exponential function where x-axis are criteria (like GDP, population, and travel, etc.) and y-axis is something like "importance score". The y-axis scores (values) become much closer together as x approaches zero. Which means, the list becomes increasingly subjective.

I think #20 could also be a 4-way tie between Pittsburgh, Portland, Charlotte, and Cleveland. I forgot how much punch Portland packs. Anyway, it's really hard to say definitively as the list becomes increasingly subjective.

[YIMBY]

Originally Posted by g500

Let me redo mine yet again (bumped Charlotte down [I think it would be #21], and replaced with Pittsburgh)
1. NYC
2. LA
3. Chicago
4. DC
5. SF
6. Boston
7. Houston
8. Philadelphia
9. Atlanta
10. Dallas
11. Miami
12. Seattle
13. Detroit
14. Minneapolis
15. Phoenix
16. Denver
17. San Diego
18. Baltimore
19. St. Louis
20. Pittsburgh

Fixed it. Not sure what makes you believe Phoenix ranks higher than Minneapolis, but whatever the case Minneapolis is easily 14th and could be in the 13th spot, but because of Detroit's history, its fine at the 14 spot. Also, one could make a solid argument for Denver being ranked above Phoenix.

[g500]

Originally Posted by YIMBY

Fixed it. Not sure what makes you believe Phoenix ranks higher than Minneapolis, but whatever the case Minneapolis is easily 14th and could be in the 13th spot, but because of Detroit's history, its fine at the 14 spot. Also, one could make a solid argument for Denver being ranked above Phoenix.

It's probably population that gives it to Phoenix (4.9 million vs 3.6 million) But, I can say they are VERY close. MSP has a larger corporate presence, is more urban, and somehow has a slightly larger economy too. I am confident with Detroit at #13 though, even though the city is in total decay, the metro is still important. Detroit still dominates the auto industry and has a very important airport. It also has a crucial connection with Canada. History is on Detroit's side and yes history does matter for these rankings. You could argue Detroit was at least as high as #7 or #8 in the USA at one time (ca. late 1940's). Maybe you are correct in flipping Phoenix and MSP. Phoenix is the epitome of decentralized sprawl. But, still Phoenix is still massive. Hmmmm... I suppose my mind could be changed.

Just to reiterate #20, I think I'd probably still give the nod to Pittsburgh, but like I said Charlotte, Cleveland, and Portland are also very compelling contenders. I had suggested to do these polls one by one (ex. Battle for spot #20), but that is probably a little too idealistic, subjective, and would be time consuming...

[TacoSoup]

Originally Posted by g500

It's probably population that gives it to Phoenix (4.9 million vs 3.6 million) But, I can say they are VERY close. MSP has a larger corporate presence, is more urban, and somehow has a slightly larger economy too. I am confident with Detroit at #13 though, even though the city is in total decay, the metro is still important. Detroit still dominates the auto industry and has a very important airport. It also has a crucial connection with Canada. History is on Detroit's side and yes history does matter for these rankings. You could argue Detroit was at least as high as #7 or #8 in the USA at one time (ca. late 1940's). Maybe you are correct in flipping Phoenix and MSP. Phoenix is the epitome of decentralized sprawl. But, still Phoenix is still massive. Hmmmm... I suppose my mind could be changed.

Just to reiterate #20, I think I'd probably still give the nod to Pittsburgh, but like I said Charlotte, Cleveland, and Portland are also very compelling contenders. I had suggested to do these polls one by one (ex. Battle for spot #20), but that is probably a little too idealistic, subjective, and would be time consuming...

Honestly I don’t think many, if any, would put it that low? From 1920-1960 Detroit was always number 4 or 5 in population with an automotive industry that flat out owned America and changed the way of life throughout much of the country. You could make the argument it was high as 3 after New York and Chicago, and above Philadelphia, before LA really blew up after the war? Either way, you can’t say it wasn’t one of America’s top 5 cities for a decent chunk of the 20th Century.

[g500]

Originally Posted by TacoSoup

Honestly I don’t think many, if any, would put it that low? From 1920-1960 Detroit was always number 4 or 5 in population with an automotive industry that flat out owned America and changed the way of life throughout much of the country. You could make the argument it was high as 3 after New York and Chicago, and above Philadelphia, before LA really blew up after the war? Either way, you can’t say it wasn’t one of America’s top 5 cities for a decent chunk of the 20th Century.

Yeah I didn't want to make Detroit's slide look even worse. Detroit was probably a contender with Philadelphia for the #3 spot between 1930-1950's, so it was at least #4. Then LA deftly surpassed them both. Still, past history is important for current day rankings.

#20 has got to be Pittsburgh, and honestly #21 is Cleveland (then followed by Portland/Charlotte). Pitt and CLE were so highly ranked throughout the 20th century. I would say both Pittsburgh and Cleveland were definitely in the top 10 most important cities for decades. Then, along came air conditioning, the interstate highway, Baby Boom suburbia, and most importantly the shift away from manufacturing (foreign outsourcing) beginning in the 1970's and continuing through today, which significantly hurt the older, established cities.

Edit: not sure how to rank DC back in that era. As a metro area, DC was significantly smaller than both Detroit or Philadelphia, but still obviously had the national capital and seat of the federal government. So, it would still be near the top somewhere, and possibly a contender, despite the dramatic difference in metro area scale. Maybe battling for #5 spot with Boston and LA, hard to say?