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The efforts here to minimize Chicago seem to abound, and I don't get why. Are people threatened by Chicago, for some reason?? Chicago does, and will always have one of the most beautiful skylines in the world, often ranking above NYC in that department. I can't think of anyone who thinks Chicago and NYC are equals. I don't think anyone has said that. I think Chicago, as an urban center, definitely seems much larger than Boston, but certainly not as big as NYC...no one has said it is. Chicago can exist under NYC, as it always has. Not sure why the efforts here to bash and minimize, when clearly, it's not either city. It's smaller than NYC, and bigger than Boston, a lot, in both cases. It kind of is what it is, and because a handful of people think they should try to imply that Chicago itself has a brain and thinks it's as big as NYC is kind of how this is being represented. I'll call it Chicago bullying, kind of. I don't know if people are threatened or insecure, but it sure doesn't make a lot of sense, to me.
The efforts here to minimize Chicago seem to abound, and I don't get why. Are people threatened by Chicago, for some reason?? Chicago does, and will always have one of the most beautiful skylines in the world, often ranking above NYC in that department. I can't think of anyone who thinks Chicago and NYC are equals. I don't think anyone has said that. I think Chicago, as an urban center, definitely seems much larger than Boston, but certainly not as big as NYC...no one has said it is. Chicago can exist under NYC, as it always has. Not sure why the efforts here to bash and minimize, when clearly, it's not either city. It's smaller than NYC, and bigger than Boston, a lot, in both cases. It kind of is what it is, and because a handful of people think they should try to imply that Chicago itself has a brain and thinks it's as big as NYC is kind of how this is being represented. I'll call it Chicago bullying, kind of. I don't know if people are threatened or insecure, but it sure doesn't make a lot of sense, to me.
Yes it’s bigger than Boston but Smaller than New York. The question is where on the continuum is it? Is it 65% towards Boston? Is it 60% towards New York? Pretty much everyone is in agreement it’s not 90% of the way to New York or 90% of the way to Boston
Nobody is even implying Boston is a peer to Chicago.
I think based on the last 20 years I would come to the conclusion is more like Boston than New York
Yes it’s bigger than Boston but Smaller than New York. The question is where on the continuum is it? Is it 65% towards Boston? Is it 60% towards New York? Pretty much everyone is in agreement it’s not 90% of the way to New York or 90% of the way to Boston
Nobody is even implying Boston is a peer to Chicago.
I think based on the last 20 years I would come to the conclusion is more like Boston than New York
Agree. The thread asked a good question because it can be interpreted in different way, which is why there has been good debated.
I don't think anyone is trying to "bash and minimize" Chicago, but rather give perspective as to the scale of NYC on several metrics. When you realize that, it's not hard to argue that it's closer to Boston (although I can also see good arguments for it being in the middle).
It's not personal against the city. I think the user (maybe under a different name) posted before because I remember the poster using the term "bullying" before when he thought someone was talking bad about Chicago. All cities go through the full gambit of opinions on this site, lol. Look at any "vs" thread to see examples.
The efforts here to minimize Chicago seem to abound, and I don't get why. Are people threatened by Chicago, for some reason?? Chicago does, and will always have one of the most beautiful skylines in the world, often ranking above NYC in that department. I can't think of anyone who thinks Chicago and NYC are equals. I don't think anyone has said that. I think Chicago, as an urban center, definitely seems much larger than Boston, but certainly not as big as NYC...no one has said it is. Chicago can exist under NYC, as it always has. Not sure why the efforts here to bash and minimize, when clearly, it's not either city. It's smaller than NYC, and bigger than Boston, a lot, in both cases. It kind of is what it is, and because a handful of people think they should try to imply that Chicago itself has a brain and thinks it's as big as NYC is kind of how this is being represented. I'll call it Chicago bullying, kind of. I don't know if people are threatened or insecure, but it sure doesn't make a lot of sense, to me.
As a native Chicagoan - Someone who is the first to say the good or bad - it seems to me this “bullying” thing is some kind of CD defense mechanism. Nobody is trying to minimize anything. This idea that people are out to get Chicago, because it’s contrary to your opinion?
If anything, my opinion is that despite the fact this is a metro debate, Chicagoans continue to point to the skyline and the loop in an effort to compare the cores attributes to Manhattan, while disregarding the rest of both the city and metro.
If I had to point a finger, I’d point it at Chicagoans for repeatedly trying to sell its size and scale using the minimum effort to do so. No talk of anything outside south over River North, east of West Loop. Which, frankly, is unnecessary. Everyone knows it’s a huge city and metro, and a great one, too.
As a native Chicagoan - Someone who is the first to say the good or bad - it seems to me this “bullying” thing is some kind of CD defense mechanism. Nobody is trying to minimize anything. This idea that people are out to get Chicago, because it’s contrary to your opinion?
If anything, my opinion is that despite the fact this is a metro debate, Chicagoans continue to point to the skyline and the loop in an effort to compare the cores attributes to Manhattan, while disregarding the rest of both the city and metro.
If I had to point a finger, I’d point it at Chicagoans for repeatedly trying to sell its size and scale using the minimum effort to do so. No talk of anything outside south over River North, east of West Loop. Which, frankly, is unnecessary. Everyone knows it’s a huge city and metro, and a great one, too.
Frankly by “hoards of Humanity” metrics I’d say the core few sq miles of Chicago is more like Boston than New York.
Even if the mass of skyscrapers and gridded streets look like each other
Here’s the reality though. Chicago compared to many cities has been in population and economic decline is at best stagnation.
Chicago had fewer people in it now than in 1990. So no it hasn’t gotten “denser” the city and MDSA have barely grown in 30 years. That’s huge amount of time for other cities to get closer to it than it is to NYC, more than enough time actually.
This isn’t a question of peer cities. None of these cities are peers.
What “always happens” on here is when people want to be more “similar to NYC than___”
They pick a Borough they feel work and goes from there- I’ve seen it with Chicago, seen it with Boston, seen it with DC, seen it with Montreal.
No place is coming close to touching all five boroughs and that’s why Chicago is in the middle of not closer to Boston. It comes up short vs NYC as a whole just like everyone else does.
I was talking about the core when I said much denser, with respect to both population and structurally. In the 80's and and 90's Chicago was unquestionably considered the "Second-City" in terms of epic, big-city urban-fabric with one of the greatest skylines in the world and no one would have dared mentioned Boston being anywhere near it. This is back when there were surface lots everywhere, industry and tons of underutilization.
Chicago's core has become significantly more built out with as many 800'+ buildings added the last decade as were built in our entire history. Lakeshore East is nearly complete which was the Hudson Yards of its era. Today Fulton Market is driving growth which is similar to Seaport but over a larger area and with taller buildings.
The Loop proper has been the fastest growing downtown in the U.S. with the greater downtown being the fastest growing downtown-district in the U.S.
Here's a model of Chicago's active proposals included from Yimby: Does this remind you more of NY or Boston?
It reminds me more of Toronto or Philadelphia than either. Regardless, I’d be willing to admit that the Loop is more similar and closer in stature to Midtown Manhattan than it is to the High Spine in Boston.
Thankfully for Boston, the scope of this thread is wider than that.
It reminds me more of Toronto or Philadelphia than either. Regardless, I’d be willing to admit that the Loop is more similar and closer in stature to Midtown Manhattan than it is to the High Spine in Boston.
Thankfully for Boston, the scope of this thread is wider than that.
Yeah but The Met is further from Battery Park than Wrigley is from Grant Park.
Like the Loop is still closer in scale to Boston than Manhattan
If you were to walk in the straightest line possible through what would be more urban than anything more than like 8 sq city blocks in any other city it would be like 7.5 miles from Barclays center to the Met.
Chicago is maybe 3-3.5 miles across the loop? Boston is what? 2 miles from the Pru to international place?
If you go by raw numbers restricting the cities to like 4-6 sq miles actually makes Chicago more like Boston than counting the metro does.
Last edited by btownboss4; 01-24-2023 at 06:32 PM..
I was talking about the core when I said much denser, with respect to both population and structurally. In the 80's and and 90's Chicago was unquestionably considered the "Second-City" in terms of epic, big-city urban-fabric with one of the greatest skylines in the world and no one would have dared mentioned Boston being anywhere near it. This is back when there were surface lots everywhere, industry and tons of underutilization.
Chicago's core has become significantly more built out with as many 800'+ buildings added the last decade as were built in our entire history. Lakeshore East is nearly complete which was the Hudson Yards of its era. Today Fulton Market is driving growth which is similar to Seaport but over a larger area and with taller buildings.
The Loop proper has been the fastest growing downtown in the U.S. with the greater downtown being the fastest growing downtown-district in the U.S.
Here's a model of Chicago's active proposals included from Yimby: Does this remind you more of NY or Boston?
Problem is you are comparing stature of chicago to bostons msa on 1 metric. Skyscrapers in the urban core. I mean nyc is so insane with skyscrapers neither comes close but absolutely chicago feels more like nyc in this department on the ground. Most other metrics I’d say chicago falls closer to Boston at a metro level.
I was talking about the core when I said much denser, with respect to both population and structurally. In the 80's and and 90's Chicago was unquestionably considered the "Second-City" in terms of epic, big-city urban-fabric with one of the greatest skylines in the world and no one would have dared mentioned Boston being anywhere near it. This is back when there were surface lots everywhere, industry and tons of underutilization.
Chicago's core has become significantly more built out with as many 800'+ buildings added the last decade as were built in our entire history. Lakeshore East is nearly complete which was the Hudson Yards of its era. Today Fulton Market is driving growth which is similar to Seaport but over a larger area and with taller buildings.
The Loop proper has been the fastest growing downtown in the U.S. with the greater downtown being the fastest growing downtown-district in the U.S.
Here's a model of Chicago's active proposals included from Yimby: Does this remind you more of NY or Boston?
Truthfully and honestly Boston. Remind me of the high spine but a high cross. Call me ignorant.
NYC is just way more vertical than this over a consistent area from Downtown Brooklyn to LIC to Manhattan to even the South Bronx. And even some of the buildings in Jersey across the Hudson…
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