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I was talking about the core when I said much denser, with respect to both population and structurally. In the 80's and and 90's Chicago was unquestionably considered the "Second-City" in terms of epic, big-city urban-fabric with one of the greatest skylines in the world and no one would have dared mentioned Boston being anywhere near it. This is back when there were surface lots everywhere, industry and tons of underutilization.
Chicago's core has become significantly more built out with as many 800'+ buildings added the last decade as were built in our entire history. Lakeshore East is nearly complete which was the Hudson Yards of its era. Today Fulton Market is driving growth which is similar to Seaport but over a larger area and with taller buildings.
The Loop proper has been the fastest growing downtown in the U.S. with the greater downtown being the fastest growing downtown-district in the U.S.
The efforts here to minimize Boston seem to abound, and I don't get why. Are people threatened by Boston, for some reason?? Boston does, and will always have one of the most beautiful streetscapes in the world, often ranking above NYC in that department. I can't think of anyone who thinks Boston and NYC are equals. I don't think anyone has said that. I think Boston, as an urban center, similarly sized as Chicago, Philly, DC, etc, but certainly not as big as NYC...no one has said it is. Boston can exist under NYC, as it always has. Not sure why the efforts here to bash and minimize, when clearly, it's not either city. It's smaller than NYC, and similar in size to the other major American cities. It kind of is what it is, and because a handful of people think they should try to imply that Boston itself has a brain and thinks it's as big as NYC is kind of how this is being represented. I'll call it Boston bullying, kind of. I don't know if people are threatened or insecure, but it sure doesn't make a lot of sense, to me.
People are a bit resentful that the city punches above its weight. And that the city strikes a nice balance of progressive politics and sensibility.
I think people especially from larger cities or metros do feel begrudged that Bosotn has managed ot work its way into the upper echelon of US cities. They seem a bit peeved it has the nerve to be as expensive as NYC or SF, and that it can be more cosmopolitan than most cities. They also seem annoyed that it never seriously falls victim to the larger woes of American cities (recessions, COVID crime waves, meth/homeless encampments- which I think is what lends itself to the provincial notion. Some people ar offended it has the nerve to have a significant Black History given its reputation. People even try to minimize the Patirots SuperBowl victories as cheatings, and the success of the Celtics Big 3 "They won one championship in the last 30 years" (to which I say there are 30 teams)
My older brother made note of this now that he lives in NYC he said to me in November "bro do you get Boston hate in Baltimore? its like everyone everywhere hates Boston and especially in NYC"
It has many groups of people that are predisposed to dislike it Leslie Jones alluded to on SNL recently. Many conservatives, hate it, many Black people and POC hate it, many of the far left in cities like SEA- SF-POR hate it, many Southerners hate it, and many New Yorkers/Philadelphians hate or look down on it.
Boston doesn't really have many allies and many people think we're arrogant know-it all so when you bring up matter-of-fact things in Boston's favor its like were trying to be something we're not I guess. Many people sort of want Boston to be what they think Boston was in the 1980s and are determined to keep it there in their own minds regardless of what the reality is. For many people, it will always be a short, insular, boring, backwards college "town" devoid of diversity, significant culture, or a corporate footprint. Thats just where they are with it.
Its also a lot of people simply cannot afford to live there and it rubs on them. Ive accepted the efforts to minimize the city as our 'cross to bear' ultimately its inconsequential because it doesn't line up with the actual city in any way.
I think you’re reading way too much into my one-sentence comment.
FWIW I really like Boston and would totally live there.
I think its probably just a subconscious thing you don't realize but he's 100% right- and its not just your one comment. He referred to "people" not just you.
No one is gonna come here and say you are not entitled to your opinion. You can minimize a city while still wanting to live there- not mutually exclusive things. Indeed thats often how it works.
I think you’re reading way too much into my one-sentence comment.
FWIW I really like Boston and would totally live there. New England is my favorite part of the east coast.
That’s actually a copy/paste from a post made a page or two ago! So very tongue-in-cheek haha.
You and Guineas are very right that in terms of nightlife, Chicago is closer to NYC. However, that’s because Boston’s nightlife is abysmal for a city it’s size.
But that’s just one category. I’m still confident that across all metrics, Chicago is closer to Boston.
Edited to add: Sleepy I’m behind, but provincial I’m not. Boston is very cosmopolitan and international; I think an argument can be made for it being moreso than Chicago, though obvious neither is close to New York in that regard.
Boston is very cosmopolitan and international; I think an argument can be made for it being moreso than Chicago, though obvious neither is close to New York in that regard.
An argument?- by that you mean objective data lol. It's okay to just say Boston is 'better' at some things than some larger cities. The sheepishness is unnecessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by As Above So Below...
Here is the 2nd batch. International Immigrant growth from 2011-2021 by Urban Area. All groups over 10,000 in growth are listed. I am using the 5-year estimates from 2011 and 2021.
Anyway, here it is.
Countries with over 10,000 growth between 2011-2021 by Urban Area
Boston - 7
China: 36,406
Dominican Republic: 31,241
India: 25,585
Haiti: 15,651
El Salvador: 14,731
Brazil: 12,781
Cabo Verde: 10,062
Chicago - 3
India: 38,352
China: 14,232
Philippines: 10,813
My friend from (the South Side of) Chicago went to the Bat Centre Bus station in Brockton and was blown away by all the languages he heard lol. His word were and I quote "bro I feel like I'm in a different country" His comments on the international profile of Boston were much more extensive, i cant remember any one quote.
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 01-25-2023 at 09:38 AM..
An argument?- by that you mean objective data lol.
Eh. I wanted them to push back first before I started backing it up. Like an easy “oh yeah. You’re right” means a lot less work and typing on my part lol.
Eh. I wanted them to push back first before I started backing it up. Like an easy “oh yeah. You’re right” means a lot less work and typing on my part lol.
Yea naw, not everything needs to be up for debate. Chicago's foreign born population is dominated by far fewer immigrant groups from fewer continents and has fewer immigrants as a percentage in general. And honestly, the economic profile of immigrants in Boston is probably more variable too.
Boston's core is buttressed by municipalities that are 30-50% foreign-born too. And unlike Chicago, the foreign-born population in Boston is concentrated in low-key residential areas, or at least that's what I have gathered. But the conversation here skews so heavily to downtown areas/tourist areas.
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 01-25-2023 at 10:08 AM..
An argument?- by that you mean objective data lol. It's okay to just say Boston is 'better' at some things than some larger cities. The sheepishness is unnecessary.
My friend from (the South Side of) Chicago went to the Bat Centre Bus station in Brockton and was blown away by all the languages he heard lol. His word were and I quote "bro I feel like I'm in a different country" His comments on the international profile of Boston were much more extensive, i cant remember any one quote.
A huge % of foreign born residents can be found on the west and north side(s) of Chicago. Though, there are pockets in the South Side. I'd be interested to see the Chicago breakout, by neighborhood/area. Chicago definitely feels like a melting pot, if you're willing to get outside of the loop and Lincoln Park (which many aren't).
In the northern suburbs, there are a TON of 1st and 2nd generation Russian/Ukrainian/Polish immigrants. Pockets of large Hispanic and Chinese immigrants, as well.
But, Chicago and its burbs has a large middle-class. I'm talking, large large large. Massive areas of suburbs that are blue collar, multi generational white families, that are just now seeing an influx of Hispanic and Asian population. Think 1990s Woburn or Saugus. That's really how a lot of Chicago's innards feel. And I don't say that to be negative.
A huge % of foreign born residents can be found on the west and north side(s) of Chicago. Though, there are pockets in the South Side. I'd be interested to see the Chicago breakout, by neighborhood/area.
In the northern suburbs, there are a TON of 1st and 2nd generation Russian/Ukrainian/Polish immigrants. Pockets of large Hispanic and Chinese immigrants, as well.
But, Chicago has a large middle-class. I'm talking, large large large. Massive areas of suburbs that are blue collar, multi generational white families, that are just now seeing an influx of Hispanic and Asian population. Think of 1990s Woburn or Saugus. That's really how a lot of Chicago's innards feel. And I don't say that to be negative.
I’m aware of all this. Mostly because I know a lot about what’s NOT on the South Side and who’s not immigrating to Chicago.
But also Chicago POSSE was at my college and there were white kids from the North Side, a Jordanian kid, and some Mexican kids even a Puerto Rican one. Due to our shared socioeconomic status they were generally my closest friends all 4 years apart form the black kids from North Jersey…one of the Mexican American kids from Little Village is now a planner with that city and an avid cyclist, we also talk.
I honestly was on the phone with my Chicago bredren last night around 11pm discussing a plan to go visit him there. He just so happened to call me out of the blue. He was like “I think I’m gonna move downtown”- dude works as an inventory manager at a Ford plant somewhere near Calumet City and didn’t graduate college (was there all 4 years with me though, lol) and can live downtown in one of the worlds premier cities. I envy Chicago in MANY respects n it the least of which is it’s very robust middle class (I’ve always gotten that vibe) and affordability. In comparison native born American who are a solidly part of the middle class and over the age of 29 is super super rare in Boston. Everything feels a bit more precarious and you gotta have an in and know a guy- which is the insular part.
But yea it draw me heavily from the most established and mainstream immigrant groups- namely Eastern Europeans, Mexicans, Chinese, and Filipinos: the mix is less eclectic than Boston and less widely distributed through the city.
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