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Regarding csa for Boston I think your relationship to neighboring msas is very dependent on where you live. If you live north shore you may interact infrequently with providence metro. However, there are many places south of Boston where providence (20-30min) is as close as Boston(20-30min). Many people south of Boston travel to providence for work or to go out as often as they do Boston. Similarly you may go to Marblehead or Ipswich to get to the ocean in the north whereas those south may be more apt to explore Newport. The same would be true for Worcester to the west. Id say the csa argument is more relevant to those living far south, west within the msa because they actually use more than one msa often. Being on north shore Id say you “feel” the larger adjacent msas less.
The fact that providence (msa population similar to Milwaukee) is included in bostons csa and Milwaukee not in chicago would mean there is far more interaction between Boston and providence msas or Boston and Worcesters compared to chicago/Milwaukee.
It's interesting that Kenosha County used to be a part of Milwaukee's MSA. Now, while Kenosha is closer to Milwaukee, it's a part of Chicago's. There actually is a lot of back and forth from the cities, via the Hiawatha, that travels between the cities several times a day. Actually, most drive, though. One day, most likely, Milwaukee's 2,000,000 CSA will adjoin Chicago's. It's a ways off, though.
It's interesting that Kenosha County used to be a part of Milwaukee's MSA. Now, while Kenosha is closer to Milwaukee, it's a part of Chicago's. There actually is a lot of back and forth from the cities, via the Hiawatha, that travels between the cities several times a day. Actually, most drive, though. One day, most likely, Milwaukee's 2,000,000 CSA will adjoin Chicago's. It's a ways off, though.
The difference is while Worcester is 45 miles from Boston, Milwaukee is 90 miles from Chicago. That places Milwaukee firmly out of range of Chicago (especially when it’s cheap enough to just like move to Cook County)
The difference is while Worcester is 45 miles from Boston, Milwaukee is 90 miles from Chicago. That places Milwaukee firmly out of range of Chicago (especially when it’s cheap enough to just like move to Cook County)
Similarly providence is 50 miles to Boston
The cities historically are more tied to Boston from just a day to day standpoint
Milwaukee/chicago strikes me more like a Philly/nyc relationship than a providence/Boston
The difference is while Worcester is 45 miles from Boston, Milwaukee is 90 miles from Chicago. That places Milwaukee firmly out of range of Chicago (especially when it’s cheap enough to just like move to Cook County)
There is continuous development between the cities, if one goes along Lake Michigan. I do expect that one day, that will fill in. It's 90 miles from core to core...suburbs meet. Milwaukee's MSA and Chicago's MSA touch.
It's interesting that Kenosha County used to be a part of Milwaukee's MSA. Now, while Kenosha is closer to Milwaukee, it's a part of Chicago's. There actually is a lot of back and forth from the cities, via the Hiawatha, that travels between the cities several times a day. Actually, most drive, though. One day, most likely, Milwaukee's 2,000,000 CSA will adjoin Chicago's. It's a ways off, though.
Portland/Boston is more similar to Milwaukee/Chicago. There’s also a train, the Downeaster, that runs between the two multiple times a day. Portsmouth NH and Dover NH are already part of the Boston MSA and they both have suburbs that spill over into southern Maine. I personally have coworkers that commute to my office ~30-35min north of DT Boston that live around Biddeford/Saco, ME. It’s also a ways off, but I could see it getting added someday.
The distances are more comparable too. City Hall to City Hall, Milwaukee to Chicago is 92mi versus 107mi for Portland to Boston. On the other hand Biddeford to Boston is 91mi, almost exactly the distance between the Midwest cities.
Portland/Boston is more similar to Milwaukee/Chicago. There’s also a train, the Downeaster, that runs between the two multiple times a day. Portsmouth NH and Dover NH are already part of the Boston MSA and they both have suburbs that spill over into southern Maine. I personally have coworkers that commute to my office ~30-35min north of DT Boston that live around Biddeford/Saco, ME. It’s also a ways off, but I could see it getting added someday.
The distances are more comparable too. City Hall to City Hall, Milwaukee to Chicago is 92mi versus 107mi for Portland to Boston. On the other hand Biddeford to Boston is 91mi, almost exactly the distance between the Midwest cities.
Yes, there are people I know who commute from Milwaukee to Chicago each day, as well. The thing is, as I said before, it's pretty solidly built up between the two cities, with Chicago haven taken over one of Milwaukee's former cities, Kenosha. While it's closer to Milwaukee, it counts for Chicago now. Milwaukee is much more a significant city than is Portland. It has it's own professional sports teams, a city proper population of over half a million, compared to Portland's less than 70,000. Comparing the two distance-wise, it's similar, but it's kind of like comparing Chicago to Rockford, IL, or South Bend, IN. No major significance to Rockford's/South Bend's closeness to Chicago, as there is the significance of Milwaukee.
Comparing the two distance-wise, it's similar, but it's kind of like comparing Chicago to Rockford, IL, or South Bend, IN. No major significance to Rockford's/South Bend's closeness to Chicago, as there is the significance of Milwaukee.
Touché. I will say that the space between Chicago and South Bend looks much less built up than Boston to Portland. For the former, it looks like mostly fields once you get past Gary. In the latter, there’s a gap in the interior between Portsmouth and Biddeford, but there’s fairly consistent development along Route 1 through York, Ogunquit, Kennebunk, etc.
Also take Portland’s 70k pop with a grain of salt. New England town borders are all very small, which results in misleading population values compared to southern and western cities. It anchors a metro of 557,000. While smaller than Milwaukee by a lot, it’s still a step up from Rockford or South Bend which each have ~330,000 in the metro.
Portland/Boston is more similar to Milwaukee/Chicago. There’s also a train, the Downeaster, that runs between the two multiple times a day. Portsmouth NH and Dover NH are already part of the Boston MSA and they both have suburbs that spill over into southern Maine. I personally have coworkers that commute to my office ~30-35min north of DT Boston that live around Biddeford/Saco, ME. It’s also a ways off, but I could see it getting added someday.
The distances are more comparable too. City Hall to City Hall, Milwaukee to Chicago is 92mi versus 107mi for Portland to Boston. On the other hand Biddeford to Boston is 91mi, almost exactly the distance between the Midwest cities.
The difference is more like Hartford to Boston= Milwaukee to Chicago both in terms of economy/stature and distance. Portland is not the juggernaut (relatively) that Hartford is. Hartford a lot closer in size as an MSA to MKE. Hartford is also part of more of an urban agglomeration too. Bout 50 minutes Hartford to Worcester and then 50 minutes Worcester to Boston.
Worcester and Providence are already a part of Boston CSA. Milwaukee isn’t a part of Chicagos for the reasons listed.
The difference is more like Hartford to Boston= Milwaukee to Chicago both in terms of economy/stature and distance. Portland is not the juggernaut (relatively) that Hartford is. Hartford a lot closer in size as an MSA to MKE. Hartford is also part of more of an urban agglomeration too. Bout 50 minutes Hartford to Worcester and then 50 minutes Worcester to Boston.
Worcester and Providence are already a part of Boston CSA. Milwaukee isn’t a part of Chicagos for the reasons listed.
Milwaukee stands alone as a city, next to Chicago. Clearly, Milwaukee is more of a major city on its own than Hartford or Portland. So proximity is the same, but Chicago doesn't count Milwaukee, as Milwaukee residents usually work in Milwaukee. It's interesting that distance is the same, and the combined population of Milwaukee and Chicago is far more than that of Boston, that does combine with similar distance cities....because Hartford and Providence residents need Boston, more than Milwaukee needs Chicago.
Milwaukee stands alone as a city, next to Chicago. Clearly, Milwaukee is more of a major city on its own than Hartford or Portland. So proximity is the same, but Chicago doesn't count Milwaukee, as Milwaukee residents usually work in Milwaukee. It's interesting that distance is the same, and the combined population of Milwaukee and Chicago is far more than that of Boston, that does combine with similar distance cities....because Hartford and Providence residents need Boston, more than Milwaukee needs Chicago.
Providence msa is basically the same size as Milwaukee msa. Providence is much closer to Boston than Milwaukee to chicago but is very much independent..
Chicago combined statistical area 9.8 million in 10600 square miles
Boston combined statistical area 8.4 million in 9700 square miles
Nyc combined statistical area 23 million in 12000 sq miles
Last edited by Ne999; 02-04-2023 at 11:23 AM..
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