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Easily SD over PHX. There are some nice things in PHX but overall it's profoundly unsustainable. (OH, and during monsoon season - there was none this year, fwiw, but there usually is from Jun-Sep - the heat is *not * a dry heat, which comes as a shock to newbies.)
Unsustainable? "Paleo Indians inhabited the area for tens of thousands of years. When they departed, archaic Indians moved into the Southwest from around 7000 BC to the Christian era. For more than 2000 years, the Hohokam people occupied the land that would become Phoenix. After the Hohokam departed, groups of Akimel O'odham (commonly known as Pima), Tohono O’odham and Maricopa tribes began to use the area, as well as segments of the Yavapai and Apache prior to the European arrival."
San Diego has cliquish Pacific Beach which is scenic but the nightlife is limited which is about as good as it gets. Gaslamp is a block or two of some bars mixed in with restaurants but isn't really impressive and full of coupled tourists.
This is so off base it's beyond silly. I lived in San Diego 30 years almost on the dot.
Gaslamp is 12 blocks long, 3 blocks across. And it's pretty dense. It's not *huge*, but what you describe is circa '84 lol. At any given time there are typically 6-7 major night clubs in downtown and probably another couple dozen large bars, probably over 100 restaurants and small bars. This area is built to handle conventions of up to 125,000 people.
On top of that, Little Italy is about a half mile from it and is of a similar size, if not quite the density (more restaurants than bars/clubs). And East Village connects to it to the east, with another 20-30 bars and probably 50+ restaurants.
A few miles up is Hillcrest, the scene is much more spread out (about a mile and down University and Washington, maybe a half mile up and down 3rd-6th).
Then there's North park a few miles to the east of Hillcrest, similar size of a scene there.
In between Hillcrest and North Park is University Heights... then a bit further up Adams and Kensington.
To the south is South Park.
What you see in PB, there is about just as much of that in downtown Encinitas.
Then there's downtown La Jolla, similar size.
And downtown Carlsbad, similar size.
And Point Loma.
And downtown Del Mar.
And Solana Beach.
I could go on... the main thing about San Diego, you can't just point to one area/section, there's like 20 of those types of areas spread over a metro that is about 60 miles north/south and about 20 miles east/west. No area in particular is huge, but there is a large variety of scenes to check out with different vibes.
Contrasted with where I just moved, Denver, everything is far more chopped up. Here everything is mostly well-connected and the density is fairly even, but nothing I've seen approaches the Gaslamp.
Last edited by brandall10; 11-11-2020 at 07:08 PM..
Yep, nothing to see here. The millions of visitors Phoenix already gets for events like Barrett Jackson auto auction, the Phoenix Open, Arabian Horse Show, Spring Training and countless other events already has us up to our eyebrows in fair weather visitors.
Man I need to start going to the city council meetings around here so we can up our game to this level.
Yep, nothing to see here. The millions of visitors Phoenix already gets for events like Barrett Jackson auto auction, the Phoenix Open, Arabian Horse Show, Spring Training and countless other events already has us up to our eyebrows in fair weather visitors.
I'd like the Arabian Horse Show, and my husband would enjoy the auto auction, but we're not so into either one that we'd drive six hours to see them. Those are sort of niche events, and sure, very popular among their adherents, but on the other hand just about every family with little kids gets the urge to take them to the beach and/or Disneyland at least once.
The Los Angeles area alone (leaving out San Diego, etc.) gets about two and a half times the number of visitors annually that Phoenix gets. In normal times.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,590,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Losfrisco
Yet San Diego and Phoenix are pretty much neck and neck in metro GDP despite SD being considerably smaller.
For a 4+ million metro, Phoenix is not very wealthy.
Don't kid yourself, we have some very wealthy people here, just look at Paradise Valley, the Arcadia section of Phoenix proper and the foothills of North and northeast Scottsdale. Lots of 7 figure priced homes
This is so off base it's beyond silly. I lived in San Diego 30 years almost on the dot.
Gaslamp is 12 blocks long, 3 blocks across. And it's pretty dense. It's not *huge*, but what you describe is circa '84 lol. At any given time there are typically 6-7 major night clubs in downtown and probably another couple dozen large bars, probably over 100 restaurants and small bars. This area is built to handle conventions of up to 125,000 people.
On top of that, Little Italy is about a half mile from it and is of a similar size, if not quite the density (more restaurants than bars/clubs). And East Village connects to it to the east, with another 20-30 bars and probably 50+ restaurants.
A few miles up is Hillcrest, the scene is much more spread out (about a mile and down University and Washington, maybe a half mile up and down 3rd-6th).
Then there's North park a few miles to the east of Hillcrest, similar size of a scene there.
In between Hillcrest and North Park is University Heights... then a bit further up Adams and Kensington.
To the south is South Park.
What you see in PB, there is about just as much of that in downtown Encinitas.
Then there's downtown La Jolla, similar size.
And downtown Carlsbad, similar size.
And Point Loma.
And downtown Del Mar.
And Solana Beach.
I could go on... the main thing about San Diego, you can't just point to one area/section, there's like 20 of those types of areas spread over a metro that is about 60 miles north/south and about 20 miles east/west. No area in particular is huge, but there is a large variety of scenes to check out with different vibes.
Contrasted with where I just moved, Denver, everything is far more chopped up. Here everything is mostly well-connected and the density is fairly even, but nothing I've seen approaches the Gaslamp.
I don't know what streets are the Gaslamp, I just know there is maybe three or four blocks that are where the restaurants and some bars are. It is mainly restaurants and mainly oriented towards coupled tourists.
Gaslamp seems like a good place to have a little dinner while at a convention, but it's not a place that is fun every weekend to massive amounts of people like Scottsdale, Tempe, Gilbert, Chandler, Glendale in Arizona.
East Village is a very depressing area with very high rates of violent crime. I personally try to stay out of that area because I don't drink and use illicit drugs. The area around 12th and Imperial is also unsanitary.
Hilcrest is good for retail shopping. They have a handful of small stores and restaurants but the highlight of that area is that they have several grocery stores and several hospitals for those who need health care. Hilcrest entertained me for about a minute.
North Park is very married and family oriented and many of the storefronts are vacant for some reason.
Pacific Beach is about as good as it gets for San Diego for an urban nightlife experience. Lots of married tourists and people on honeymoon's though.
North County downtowns:
Del Mar: It's a very scenic clean area that mainly caters to very affluent senior citizens. I have never seen a city hall with a fancy seating area. It is a very regal city in my opinion, lots of couples in their 70s driving european convertables to white table cloth restaurants and going home to their old mini-mansions with manicured lawns overlooking the beach.
Solana Beach: it's nice, but very small retail area. Like Del Mar, wonderful for very rich seniors.
Downtown Encinitas: I will say Encinitas is very impressive and is very underrated with a huge variety of restaurants and other stores and it's designed perfectly in my opinion. Excellent small city.
Downtown Carlsbad: Seems to be more small stores than restaurants and it closes early. Downtown Carlsbad is purely a family destination. Virtually all of the tourism in downtown Carlsbad is families, it is a very old fashioned downtown that feels modern and 1950s at the same time.
Downtown Oceanside: Very little appeal. Always seems like a bunch of families who aren't enjoying their experience because it has a gritty, seedy full of hundreds and hundreds who have severe mental health issues.
Phoenix in my opinion with people from all over the nation, from all walks of life is what makes it such an interesting metropolitan area with so much variety.
There are so many interesting people in metro Phoenix, very exciting.
San Diego is a one-trick pony in my opinion. I visit to be in the great outdoors, if it didn't have some of the best scenery which they are blessed with the city of San Diego would be about as interesting as a bag of flour with the exception of Pacific Beach.
Unsustainable? "Paleo Indians inhabited the area for tens of thousands of years. When they departed, archaic Indians moved into the Southwest from around 7000 BC to the Christian era. For more than 2000 years, the Hohokam people occupied the land that would become Phoenix. After the Hohokam departed, groups of Akimel O'odham (commonly known as Pima), Tohono O’odham and Maricopa tribes began to use the area, as well as segments of the Yavapai and Apache prior to the European arrival."
Were there almost 5 million people living in the Valley of the Sun back then? Doubtful...
Oh, that's right! Phoenix leaders forgot to plan for the future.
Don't act like you're the water conservation or sustainability messenger. I'm 100% positive that Phoenix leaders and residents don't need lectures from outsiders when it comes to limited world views on water conservation and are already fully aware of any water issues in the West. Arizona residents are conserving more water now than they did 40 years ago when the population was at least half of what it is now. Phoenix is better positioned to deal with climate change than a lot of other cities. It is always hot and dry here and we know how to plan for a future where it may be hotter and drier.
Gaslamp seems like a good place to have a little dinner while at a convention, but it's not a place that is fun every weekend to massive amounts of people like Scottsdale, Tempe, Gilbert, Chandler, Glendale in Arizona.
Get out of here, you know that the small commercial strips in Chandler, Gilbert and Glendale are filled with families. And DT Scottsdale is full of tourists staying in the nearby resorts. Tempe? Sure, if like being surrounded by college students. I prefer Central PHX over any of those places mentioned.
And SD has way more urban areas with commercial strips lined with bars, restaurants and retail than PHX. Go ahead and drive up these streets and tell me how may chain stores and restaurants you see:
Calling SD a one-trick phony is funny, too. You can only hike up Camelback or Piestewa so many times before it gets old, right? I guess you can walk around Fashion Square or Chandler Fashion Center to kill the rest of the day.
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