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Again, post up any links of comparables, you don't need to be a real estate expert to see the price per foot is nowhere near comparable.
I'm not seeing how San Diego is even remotely close to Phoenix on affordability.
It's not. Something like 55-60% of Phoenix households can afford a starter home, whereas only one in three San Diegans can. There's a huge difference in affordablity.
I wasn't arguing the difference in affordability. I just think you used terrible, anecdotal examples. The Phoenix example had amenities and schools comparable to the bottom third of SD neighborhoods, whereas SD example had great local amenities, good location, and high ranking schools.
I'd rather rely on statistics like the one above than comparing real estate listings from people who don't know local neighborhoods very well. If I wanted lousy schools, mediocre location and house, and generic suburbia in San Diego, I don't need to pay $860K.
For me it would definitely be San Diego. I was blown away by just how gorgeous the city is with the water, nice weather, nice people, nice cars, lol. It was just an all around nice city. If most of my family weren't on the east coast and Midwest, I would move to SD (or other parts of CA) in a heartbeat.
In fairness, I have never been to Phoenix, but the dryness, and lack of greenery and lack of bodies of water are some negatives for me.
It's not. Something like 55-60% of Phoenix households can afford a starter home, whereas only one in three San Diegans can. There's a huge difference in affordablity.
I wasn't arguing the difference in affordability. I just think you used terrible, anecdotal examples. The Phoenix example had amenities and schools comparable to the bottom third of SD neighborhoods, whereas SD example had great local amenities, good location, and high ranking schools.
I'd rather rely on statistics like the one above than comparing real estate listings from people who don't know local neighborhoods very well. If I wanted lousy schools, mediocre location and house, and generic suburbia in San Diego, I don't need to pay $860K.
The median home price in metro Phoenix includes Pinal County (which during rush-hour is an hour drive to places like Tempe, Scottsdale and Downtown Phoenix) and Phoenix has alot of neighborhoods with extremely high violent crime rates that I can't envision people just moving to the area wanting to reside in those Phoenix neighborhoods.
Suburbs like Gilbert, Chandler, Scottsdale and Tempe are generally far more expensive than the median home price.
Tempe, Gilbert, Chandler in metro Phoenix and Escondido, El Cajon in San Diego County all offer a similar amount of house for a similar price. Escondido and El Cajon actually look nice compared to much of the city of Phoenix.
I like metro Phoenix more than metro San Diego but the scale of rough neighborhoods in San Diego County is nothing compared to Phoenix.
Phoenix generally is much more exensive on single-family home prices than a majority of the people from outside think because there is 1/4 of the metro population that either lives all the way in Pinal County or in extremely high crime areas of Phoenix.
Inland parts of San Diego County like Ramona, Escondido, El Cajon, Alpine are only slightly pricier than suburban Gilbert, Chandler and less expensive than Scottsdale on average.
Much of San Diego County much higher home values come from the extremely high prices along the I-5 corridor from UTC to Coastal Oceanside which is 30+ miles of oceanfront real estate.
What is rather interesting is that highly desirable places like metro Phoenix like Tempe has violent crime rates that are on average higher than El Cajon and Escondido which have a reputation in San Diego County.
The median home price in metro Phoenix includes Pinal County (which during rush-hour is an hour drive to places like Tempe, Scottsdale and Downtown Phoenix) and Phoenix has alot of neighborhoods with extremely high violent crime rates that I can't envision people just moving to the area wanting to reside in those Phoenix neighborhoods.
You do bring up an interesting point: What's the use of comparing median home prices if the median neighborhood in San Diego is better than the median in Phoenix? (not my assertion, but something worth exploring)
Is a $350K neighborhood in Phoenix the same as a $670K neighborhood in San Diego w.r.t amenities, crime, schools, location/convenience, and other QOL measures? Or do you actually need to pay closer to $500K to get the $670K neighborhood in SD?
I'd be interested if someone more familiar with Phoenix could find Phoenix zip codes with median home prices comparable to the regional median. I referenced Redfin market data for San Diego and the median $670K would get you some pretty good neighborhoods:
Northern/eastern San Marcos (92069)
Shadowridge, Vista (92081)
Otay Ranch, Chula Vista (91915/91913)
Oceanside (92054, 92056)
Eastern Clairemont/Linda Vista (92111)
La Mesa - zip median $100K less region (91942)
Santee - zip median $100K less region (92071)
Rancho San Diego - zip median $50K less region (92091)
These generally have very low crime and pretty decent schools (basically all but 92111). A mix of new and older neighborhoods. Some more inland than others, but all very nice by most standards.
Quote:
Escondido and El Cajon actually look nice compared to much of the city of Phoenix.
Phoenix generally is much more exensive on single-family home prices than a majority of the people from outside think because there is 1/4 of the metro population that either lives all the way in Pinal County or in extremely high crime areas of Phoenix.
What is rather interesting is that highly desirable places like metro Phoenix like Tempe has violent crime rates that are on average higher than El Cajon and Escondido which have a reputation in San Diego County.
That's really interesting because Escondido is the "armpit" of North County and El Cajon is the "armpit" of east county, at least by San Diego standards. Of course that is absolutely ridiculous as both have very nice communities and pretty vibrant main streets. In most major cities, these would be very nice communities (which they are).
It's not. Something like 55-60% of Phoenix households can afford a starter home, whereas only one in three San Diegans can. There's a huge difference in affordablity.
I wasn't arguing the difference in affordability. I just think you used terrible, anecdotal examples. The Phoenix example had amenities and schools comparable to the bottom third of SD neighborhoods, whereas SD example had great local amenities, good location, and high ranking schools.
I'd rather rely on statistics like the one above than comparing real estate listings from people who don't know local neighborhoods very well. If I wanted lousy schools, mediocre location and house, and generic suburbia in San Diego, I don't need to pay $860K.
As for amenities, it's not far from North Scottsdale which includes high end shopping like Scottsdale Quarter and Kierland Commons, tons of dining options, and events. Nearby freeway access to job centers in downtown and North Scottsdale.
The median home price in metro Phoenix includes Pinal County (which during rush-hour is an hour drive to places like Tempe, Scottsdale and Downtown Phoenix) and Phoenix has alot of neighborhoods with extremely high violent crime rates that I can't envision people just moving to the area wanting to reside in those Phoenix neighborhoods.
Suburbs like Gilbert, Chandler, Scottsdale and Tempe are generally far more expensive than the median home price.
Tempe, Gilbert, Chandler in metro Phoenix and Escondido, El Cajon in San Diego County all offer a similar amount of house for a similar price. Escondido and El Cajon actually look nice compared to much of the city of Phoenix.
I like metro Phoenix more than metro San Diego but the scale of rough neighborhoods in San Diego County is nothing compared to Phoenix.
Phoenix generally is much more exensive on single-family home prices than a majority of the people from outside think because there is 1/4 of the metro population that either lives all the way in Pinal County or in extremely high crime areas of Phoenix.
Inland parts of San Diego County like Ramona, Escondido, El Cajon, Alpine are only slightly pricier than suburban Gilbert, Chandler and less expensive than Scottsdale on average.
Much of San Diego County much higher home values come from the extremely high prices along the I-5 corridor from UTC to Coastal Oceanside which is 30+ miles of oceanfront real estate.
What is rather interesting is that highly desirable places like metro Phoenix like Tempe has violent crime rates that are on average higher than El Cajon and Escondido which have a reputation in San Diego County.
This misconception that SD and Phoenix metro pricing are some how close is odd to me, none of the cities you just mentioned have comparable prices to Tempe/Chandler/Gilbert and only El Cajon is slightly cheaper than Scottsdale. This is just sale price, taken directly from RedFin Market Insights from each city and it doesn't factor in the much higher tax rate in California.
And Ramonia to downtown San Diego is 36 miles, Queen Creek to downtown Phoenix is 38 miles. Neither one is going to be a treat in rush hour but in Queen Creek you're getting a much better house for being 35+ miles from the city center.
Median Sale Price by City:
Tempe: $355k
Chandler: $378k
Gilbert: $410k
Scottsdale: $595k
Escondido: $625K
El Cajon:$575K
Romana: $630K
Alpine: $739K
Is a $350K neighborhood in Phoenix the same as a $670K neighborhood in San Diego w.r.t amenities, crime, schools, location/convenience, and other QOL measures? Or do you actually need to pay closer to $500K to get the $670K neighborhood in SD?
I'd be interested if someone more familiar with Phoenix could find Phoenix zip codes with median home prices comparable to the regional median. I referenced Redfin market data for San Diego and the median $670K would get you some pretty good neighborhoods:
Northern/eastern San Marcos (92069)
Shadowridge, Vista (92081)
Otay Ranch, Chula Vista (91915/91913)
Oceanside (92054, 92056)
Eastern Clairemont/Linda Vista (92111)
La Mesa - zip median $100K less region (91942)
Santee - zip median $100K less region (92071)
Rancho San Diego - zip median $50K less region (92091)
The poster was talking about the City of Phoenix, which admittedly has a high % rough areas.
Area Vibes might be the best place to do the comparison and you can drill down into individual neighborhoods to your hearts content. On average though the metro Phoenix cities stack up pretty well to the areas you mentioned. The reason Phoenix is getting more expensive is because of the desirability. The east valley family amenities are no joke, they just broke ground on another massive youth sports complex, this one is $250M https://azbigmedia.com/real-estate/c...round-in-mesa/.
Chandler median house price $367K ranks 83 on livability
Tempe median is $355K and ranks 71
Gilbert median is $410K and ranks 85
Peoria median is $370K and ranks 81
Glendale median is $305K and ranks 72
East Mesa median is $328K and ranks 79
La Mesa is a 72 on livability
Oceanside is 63 on livability
Otay Ranch is 76
Santee is 74
As for amenities, it's not far from North Scottsdale which includes high end shopping like Scottsdale Quarter and Kierland Commons, tons of dining options, and events. Nearby freeway access to job centers in downtown and North Scottsdale.
Open choice is pretty common these days. It’s always based on availability, and first dibs goes to the children of the faculty and staff from that school, and next those working within the district. What few remaining spots left (if any?) are all being vied for by hundreds, if not thousands of families. Next in line are the students that live in the district, but aren’t zoned for said school, and finally you have everyone else. Good luck.
And if you do win that lottery, unless your child is disabled you’ll be required to provide their transportation. You can feel safe with most high school kids (and some middle school) riding city busses to school, but preteens?
To say “worrying about what the school quality is near your home really doesn’t matter” because of open choice is being overly optimistic and/or delusional.
How common is it to be as open as Arizona? California's open enrollment reads much different to me.
It’s always based on availability, and first dibs goes to the children of the faculty and staff from that school, and next those working within the district. What few remaining spots left (if any?) are all being vied for by hundreds, if not thousands of families. Next in line are the students that live in the district, but aren’t zoned for said school, and finally you have everyone else. Good luck.
It is based on availability plus you have charter school options as well private school credits specifically in Arizona. Parents I know have had no problems getting their children into quality schools. If that is your ultimate priority and logistics around school options don't work in the Phoenix city limits then many will choose to live in Chandler or Gilbert where homes remain much more affordable then San Diego area.
And if you do win that lottery, unless your child is disabled you’ll be required to provide their transportation. You can feel safe with most high school kids (and some middle school) riding city busses to school, but preteens?
Of course it would have to work for ones life, logistics with kids including pre and post school is always something one has to figure out.
To say “worrying about what the school quality is near your home really doesn’t matter” because of open choice is being overly optimistic and/or delusional.
Okay, maybe oversimplified that but it's a relevant point.
The livability rating already incorporates housing prices (twice actually...the methodology is questionable...) so it's pointless to reference one variable (housing price) against another variable that is inclusive of the first one. The point is to compare housing price to non-housing price variables. I know nothing about their methodology, so I'm not going to say that this is a definitive or irrefutable conclusion, but these two communities are both new and equidistant to their respective city centers: Chandler:
Amenities: A+
Crime: B
Schools: B-
Employment: C+
Median home price:$375K
Median HH income: $68.6K (region)
Otay Ranch:
Amenities: A+
Crime: A+
Schools: B+
Employment: C+
Median home price: ~$600K
Median HH income: $84K (region)
Non-housing COL (transportation, groceries, medical, etc.) is about 20% higher as reported by Area Vibes**** in Otay vs. Chandler. Obviously these don't scale identically FYI (e.g. Chandler HH spend $13K annually on transportation; CV spends $14K based on H+T index). It's also very unclear whether the non-housing cost items are based on the costs themselves or the actual expenditures. While utilities may be priced higher in San Diego, we also are able to use significantly less. So while utilities may be "cheaper" in Phoenix, they ultimately cost more because you use them more. That's a huge fault in the Area Vibes data, which shows CV transportation as 30% more expensive than Chandler, but actual annual HH expenses in CV are only a marginal 8% higher than Chandler--likely because of better, cheaper transit options. It's important to understand the nuances to these ranking methodologies because they are often misleading.
Overall, I'd say that they are comparable in quality with an edge to CV due to crime and schools. Ignoring CV's better weather and proximity to beaches and the fact that it has actual transit options (including bus rapid transit and light rail).
Median home price in Otay Ranch is 7 times SD region's HH income; median home price in Chandler is 5.6 times Phoenix region's HH income.
Using just this one example, comparing housing prices to neighborhood quality and regional income, there isn't a massive difference in affordability. It's very clear that you get more in terms of neighborhood quality, house size, etc. in Phoenix based on price, but it's not the crazy savings that people are imagining. And obviously you are sacrificing living near the beach in CA.
Obviously there are other considerations such as taxes and other expenses. But overall, I think the important message is that Phoenix isn't as cheap as you might think.
Last edited by newgensandiego; 12-07-2020 at 03:28 PM..
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