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I’d like to point out not all red areas are the same. ME-02 was like a 6 point margin on the presidential side and elected a Dem Congressman by a strong margin.
That’s not like Wyoming County PA or something that’s ~77% Republican.
Like Rural Maine has partisan splits more like Pittsburgh Suburbs than rural PA.
I’d like to point out not all red areas are the same. ME-02 was like a 6 point margin on the presidential side and elected a Dem Congressman by a strong margin.
That’s not like Wyoming County PA or something that’s ~77% Republican.
Like Rural Maine has partisan splits more like Pittsburgh Suburbs than rural PA.
Generally speaking, you're not wrong. But I think there's happenstance of demography here, to some degree.
The assumption, which isn't outright wrong but misleading, is that the "redder" an area, the more conservative it is, but in theory it could just be the home of a lot of right-leaning Independents.
Heck, New Hampshire looks like a blue-and-red checkerboard, by significant margins on each side. Pretty fascinating to think about what caused that outcome: https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/re.../new-hampshire
But again, I think it speaks more to homogeneity (i.e., old and white) than far-right conservatism. Much of rural PA and NY are similar in that regard, if not most of the rural US.
Most people just have a hard time wrapping their head around nuance of political allegiance due to the pervasive "black-and-white" mindset of voting behaviors.
I’d like to point out not all red areas are the same. ME-02 was like a 6 point margin on the presidential side and elected a Dem Congressman by a strong margin.
That’s not like Wyoming County PA or something that’s ~77% Republican.
Like Rural Maine has partisan splits more like Pittsburgh Suburbs than rural PA.
I mean this thread is not.
PA verse NE.
It is what state is most like NY.
And the New England posters have affirmed.
NY and PA are very similar.
NY has NYC, which obviously turns it blue every year.
PA has PHL and PITT which typically does the same.
But both PA and NY rural pockets are both more alike politically than NE.
Other than Maine.
Maine is the red dot of NE. And NH is not far behind.
I love NE, but I think Maine economically is not in a positive zone. It actually is quite poor.
Generally speaking, you're not wrong. But I think there's happenstance of demography here, to some degree.
The assumption, which isn't outright wrong but misleading, is that the "redder" an area, the more conservative it is, but in theory it could just be the home of a lot of right-leaning Independents.
Heck, New Hampshire looks like a blue-and-red checkerboard, by significant margins on each side. Pretty fascinating to think about what caused that outcome:https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/re.../new-hampshire
But again, I think it speaks more to homogeneity (i.e., old and white) than far-right conservatism. Much of rural PA and NY are similar in that regard, if not most of the rural US.
Most people just have a hard time wrapping their head around nuance of political allegiance due to the pervasive "black-and-white" mindset of voting behaviors.
Town culture/identity mostly. People settle in certain towns because the culture or politics is known-locally speaking- to be different than the adjacent town. I guess thats tolerable for people because they're all white like you said. They can set aside they're differences and checkerboard.
Town culture/identity mostly. People settle in certain towns because the culture or politics is known-locally speaking- to be different than the adjacent town. I guess thats tolerable for people because they're all white like you said. They can set aside they're differences and checkerboard.
It’s not really a checkerboard if you look beyond NH borders. The CT River Valley is Vermont like, the Seacoast is Democratic just like ME and Massachusetts regions across the borders., the Boston commuter towns are red, the more urban Merrimack valley’s cities are blue and the ruraler lakes are Red.
In the Context of New England it’s more like red enclaves.
FWIW I was just reminded that the Chevy Chase TV movie "Christmas in Vermont" was filmed entirely in the Buffalo area, posing as the fictional town of "Chestnut, Vermont." (People from Vermont weren't fooled, of course).
I can't imagine anyone saying PA is less historical than New England or New York. The PA colony isn't quite as old as New Netherland, Plymouth or Massachusetts Bay but who cares. The Declaration of Inde was signed at the PA state house in Philadelphia in case anyone's wondering about Pennsylvania's historical cred. I think the small eastern PA cities are more attractive than the small NE cities on the whole-- they're more city-like with tight blocks full of connected buildings built in brick. The scattered wood-frame vinyl-sided look of the residential streets in smaller New England cities is more village than city vocabulary. Different in a bigger city like New Bedford or Waterbury where the wood frame buildings are taller and closer together and define an urban street space much as row houses do. Bethlehem and Gettysburg and Lancaster are gorgeous; maybe York and Reading and Allentown too. In New England the coastal cities have different histories and appearance than the inland ones. Small coastal cities like Salem and Portsmouth are beautiful and their wood-frame districts have lots of charm. Inland cities got wealthy from industry rather than maritime trade or fishing and whaling and today are full of immigrants and working class rather than monied people and tourists. Bigger coastal cities can be mainly industrial-- Fall River, Bridgeport, Lynn. Or a hybrid like New Bedford and Providence. New Haven, Connecticut is mainly industrial but having Yale gives it some college town ambiance that nearby Bridgeport doesn't have. Boston is much bigger than any of the others and has plenty of industrial history but its central areas have the character of a maritime commercial city. Portland Maine is like that too on much smaller scale.
Very well said.
Many of the things that New England touts as unique and intrinsic are actually part of many other areas as well (and sometimes on a larger scale), the difference being that these other places don't rely as heavily on them and therefore aren't as vocal or blinkered about it.
The aura and fabric of cities like Bristol, PA is what most New England cities think they are. And so there are dozens and dozens all over PA and NY. Bristol and Plymouth are only 60 years apart and Albany I think not even a year.
Bristol and Plymouth are only 60 years apart and Albany I think not even a year.
Albany was established as a fort by the Dutch in 1614, while Plymouth and Bristol were founded by British settlers in 1620 and 1681, respectively. Albany's early Dutch history and strong presence through their descendants well into post-Revolution days is still discernible in many of its historical sites and place names (much like NYC, but to an even greater degree).
It is hard for me to vote for this because I can see New York having similarities with both Pennsylvania and New England.
Overall, Pennsylvania and New York are almost the same size and share some of the same geological features, including the Delaware River, the Allegheny plateau and river, Lake Erie and the Susquehanna river.
However, from the Long Island perspective, there is a closeness to New England, historical, cultural, and geographical (LI is related to Cape Cod, Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard). And Upstate, the Adirondacks, Albany and Hudson Valley are probably more similar to New England while the Southern Tier and the Catskills are more similar to Pennsylvania.
I just don't see it, the sides of New York bordering New England look more like New England than the side of NY bordering PA looks like PA. My brother recently moved from Syracuse to Northeast Pennsylvania and it has been a shock in terms of infrastructure, services, rules, laws, etc.
But at the same time I have crossed the border between Massachusetts and New York, also Vermont and the change is apparent, but that happens in many places also: PA/NJ, IN/IL, MD/PA, NY/CT etc...
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