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Sorry, I addressed that in my next post. Like I said don't want to only criticize when I'm not doing the work but the easiest way would be to add weights based on ethnic diversity of the country.
I also pointed out the issues of making it more subjective. Maybe if language spoken at home data was available that would be a better impromptu use for ethnicity. Of course that has it's own issues as well as I pointed out with Switzerland but it's much less problematic in my honest opinion than using national boundaries. You could probably manage to squeeze a combination of both.
To further clarify: You could do something like this since regions generally have themes, rather than going country by country to decide which stat captures the ethnic diversity more. I don't know if the data is available though.
For Europe and East Asia- Either National origin or languages spoken at home would suffice, since the continent and region are largely ethnostates with a shared language.
For MENA and Latin America- since Arabic and Spanish dominate the region but their is clearly more ethnic groups than that, countries could suffice
For Sub-Saharan Africa, South Asia, SE Asia- since multiethnic countries are the norm in these 3 regions of the world it would make the most sense to use linguistic diversity as an impromptu.
I would also set the number of speakers on the language barrier lower just because you can speak multiple languages but you can't identify as both Indian or Pakistani on national origin, so someone who could speak Urdu at home but doesn't because everyone in their family speaks English isn't included.
That could be a way to more collectively attack the question of ethnic diversity. But it's a lot of work that i'm suggesting so I assume it would be a hassle to do.
Last edited by NigerianNightmare; 12-29-2020 at 12:03 PM..
I was saying the possibility of three different religions since Sikhs are overrepresented in Indian migration as a percent of the population. Only 25 million Sikhs but more than a million of them in North America. Indian Christians are also overrepresented in North America.
Roughly 20% of all North Americans of India descent identify as Sikh.
Gotcha gotcha! Do you know what the linguistic breakdown of Indians in the US is?
Gotcha gotcha! Do you know what the linguistic breakdown of Indians in the US is?
I don't but the data that As Above So Below has posted on cities shows that, each city has their own diverse mix of Indian ethnicities with Hindi, Urdu, Tamil, Punjabi, Gujarati, Telugu and Bengali all putting up good numbers. If I remember correctly Hindi was number one but I think the Indian American population had more diverse linguistic origins than India itself.
I don't but the data that As Above So Below has posted on cities shows that, each city has their own diverse mix of Indian ethnicities.
On a different thread you mean? And does Dallas have a significant different Indian population in terms of language and religion than Los Angeles or Washington?
Gotcha gotcha! Do you know what the linguistic breakdown of Indians in the US is?
I do. I also threw in African languages. Now my question is how can we use this to refine a diversity ranking or breakdown? I dont mean that patronizingly either. This is a topic Im passionate about and I want to find an accurate way to score cities, MSAs, CSAs, and urban areas in orders or tiers of diversity. So if there is a way to incorporate this, Im all for it:
Gujarati
New York City: 82,395
Chicago: 48,751
Philadelphia: 26,516
Houston: 20,511
Atlanta: 19,992
Los Angeles: 15,519
Dallas/Fort Worth: 15,424
San Francisco: 10,734
San Jose: 10,195
Boston: 10,145
Washington DC: 9,767
Detroit: 9,461
Charlotte: 6,940
Baltimore: 6,893
Tampa: 6,303
Orlando: 5,527
Austin: 5,036
Phoenix: 4,217
Raleigh: 4,035
Riverside: 3,991
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 3,757
Seattle/Tacoma: 3,472
Sacramento: 2,634
Minneapolis/St. Paul: 2,228
San Diego: 1,430
Las Vegas: 865
Hindi
New York City: 125,321
San Francisco: 63,621
Dallas/Fort Worth: 44,508
Washington DC: 42,328
Chicago: 40,715
San Jose: 40,563
Los Angeles: 40,299
Seattle/Tacoma: 33,143
Atlanta: 31,967
Houston: 31,116
Sacramento: 25,003
Boston: 23,856
Philadelphia: 20,116
Detroit: 16,642
Austin: 13,972
Minneapolis/St. Paul: 12,698
San Diego: 10,608
Riverside: 9,011
Charlotte: 8,489
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 7,485
Raleigh: 7,358
Baltimore: 7,342
Tampa: 6,965
Denver: 6,071
Orlando: 5,831
Portland, OR: 4,747
San Antonio: 3,170
Las Vegas: 3,148
Urdu
New York City: 108,462
Houston: 48,884
Chicago: 48,020
Washington DC: 38,490
Dallas/Fort Worth: 26,691
Philadelphia: 14,573
Los Angeles: 13,889
San Francisco: 13,259
Detroit: 12,595
Seattle/Tacoma: 11,332
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 10,130
Atlanta: 9,789
Baltimore: 9,356
Orlando: 6,149
San Jose: 5,570
Riverside: 4,576
Sacramento: 4,537
Austin: 4,472
Boston: 3,609
Raleigh: 2,818
Tampa: 2,786
Minneapolis/St. Paul: 2,272
Denver: 2,229
Phoenix: 1,898
Las Vegas: 1,730
San Diego: 1,693
San Antonio: 1,121
Punjabi
New York City: 52,524
Los Angeles: 20,456
Sacramento: 19,970
San Francisco: 18,031
San Jose: 13,782
Seattle/Tacoma: 12,140
Chicago: 8,065
Washington DC: 7,685
Phoenix: 6,734
Philadelphia: 5,967
Riverside: 5,416
Boston: 4,611
Detroit: 3,843
Baltimore: 3,628
Dallas/Fort Worth: 3,570
Houston: 3,558
Atlanta: 3,212
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 1,818
Las Vegas: 1,239
San Antonio: 1,235
San Diego: 933
Tampa: 874
Minneapolis/St. Paul: 373
Orlando: 164
Austin: 62
Bengali
New York City: 147,034
Detroit: 24,820
Los Angeles: 17,213
Washington DC: 15,759
Dallas/Fort Worth: 11,486
Boston: 10,448
Philadelphia: 10,311
Atlanta: 9,279
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 9,092
Houston: 5,812
San Francisco: 5,375
Chicago: 4,732
San Jose: 3,359
Baltimore: 3,299
Orlando: 3,214
Seattle/Tacoma: 3,037
Raleigh: 2,306
Phoenix: 2,060
Austin: 1,842
Tampa: 1,439
Portland, OR: 1,412
Minneapolis/St. Paul: 1,388
Riverside: 1,189
Sacramento: 982
Las Vegas: 930
San Antonio: 636
San Diego: 586
Nepali
New York City: 42,068
Dallas/Fort Worth: 32,664
Washington DC: 21,947
San Francisco: 20,315
Boston: 13,563
San Jose: 13,498
Columbus, OH: 13,483
Los Angeles: 13,212
Houston: 12,626
Chicago: 12,340
Atlanta: 12,201
Baltimore: 9,891
Pittsburgh: 8,005
Philadelphia: 7,574
Seattle/Tacoma: 6,808
Denver: 6,562
Minneapolis/St. Paul: 5,922
Austin: 5,716
Cincinnati: 5,637
Detroit: 5,223
Portland, OR: 4,030
Charlotte: 3,689
Raleigh: 3,033
San Diego: 2,303
Sacramento: 2,170
Las Vegas: 2,006
Tampa: 1,992
Phoenix: 1,734
Orlando: 1,493
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 1,352
Riverside: 1,348
San Antonio: 607
Telugu:
Dallas/Fort Worth: 29,319
New York City: 27,347
Washington DC: 26,196
San Francisco: 26,180
Chicago: 18,101
San Jose: 17,372
Atlanta: 16,775
Seattle/Tacoma: 15,534
Detroit: 12,290
Houston: 11,294
Columbus, OH: 10,384
Phoenix: 10,362
Los Angeles: 9,760
Philadelphia: 8,952
Boston: 8,165
Charlotte: 7,652
Austin: 7,648
St. Louis: 6,976
Raleigh: 6,773
Baltimore: 6,311
Minneapolis/St. Paul: 4,624
San Diego: 4,584
Sacramento: 4,138
Tampa: 3,630
Portland, OR: 3,364
Denver: 2,990
Orlando: 2,463
San Antonio: 1,616
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 1,364
Riverside: 1,162
Las Vegas: 150
Tamil
New York City: 32,707
San Jose: 19,260
Dallas/Fort Worth: 18,377
San Francisco: 18,291
Atlanta: 12,558
Chicago: 12,518
Philadelphia: 11,447
Los Angeles: 11,020
Washington DC: 10,065
Seattle/Tacoma: 9,997
Detroit: 8,973
Boston: 7,841
Phoenix: 7,512
Minneapolis/St. Paul: 6,462
Houston: 5,041
Charlotte: 4,901
Austin: 4,364
Raleigh: 4,344
San Diego: 4,139
Denver: 3,148
Portland, OR: 2,736
San Antonio: 2,287
Riverside: 2,095
Sacramento: 2,057
Tampa: 1,971
Baltimore: 1,961
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 1,719
Orlando: 820
Las Vegas: 500
Malayalam
New York City: 42,646
Dallas/Fort Worth: 24,788
Houston: 17,154
Philadelphia: 16,473
Chicago: 13,655
San Jose: 12,816
San Francisco: 12,506
Washington DC: 10,292
Seattle/Tacoma: 8,394
Detroit: 7,042
Atlanta: 6,347
Los Angeles: 5,678
Boston: 4,292
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 3,746
Austin: 3,102
Phoenix: 3,044
Tampa: 2,991
Raleigh: 2,901
Denver: 2,895
Orlando: 2,681
Minneapolis/St. Paul: 2,267
San Diego: 1,945
Sacramento: 1,570
Baltimore: 1,467
Portland, OR: 1,466
San Antonio: 1,261
Riverside: 620
Las Vegas: 559
Arabic
New York City: 149,438
Detroit: 143,600
Chicago: 70,807
Los Angeles: 66,923
Washington DC: 52,846
Houston: 35,905
Dallas/Fort Worth: 34,689
San Diego: 29,178
Philadelphia: 27,530
Boston: 24,897
Riverside: 24,548
San Francisco: 23,427
Phoenix: 20,263
Atlanta: 17,961
Tampa: 17,293
Seattle/Tacoma: 17,112
Cleveland: 15,987
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 15,164
Orlando: 14,947
Sacramento: 10,559
Columbus, OH: 10,529
Minneapolis/St. Paul: 9,635
Austin: 9,431
Denver: 9,383
Providence: 9,204
San Antonio: 9,168
Baltimore: 8,703
Charlotte: 8,626
San Jose: 7,174
Portland, OR: 7,038
Cincinnati: 4,906
Las Vegas: 3,913
Amharic (the language of Ethiopia) and Somali
Minneapolis/St. Paul: 74,143
Washington DC: 70,829
Seattle/Tacoma: 40,985
Detroit: 28,489
Columbus, OH: 25,867
Chicago: 21,549
San Diego: 19,613
Dallas/Fort Worth: 18,026
Atlanta: 15,643
Denver: 15,097
Las Vegas: 15,110
New York City: 14,391
Los Angeles: 13,718
Houston: 13,525
San Francisco: 12,866
Phoenix: 9,978
Boston: 9,876
San Jose: 9,512
Portland, OR: 7,785
Sacramento: 5,764
Philadelphia: 5,625
Austin: 4,377
Baltimore: 3,583
San Antonio: 1,403
Riverside: 1,382
Tampa: 1,072
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 341
Orlando: 287
Yoruba, Twi, Igbo and other West African Languages
New York City: 115,944
Washington DC: 44,249
Houston: 42,504
Atlanta: 35,208
Dallas/Fort Worth: 34,570
Baltimore: 25,541
Philadelphia: 22,049
Los Angeles: 19,794
Chicago: 17,991
Boston: 12,373
Minneapolis/St. Paul: 12,037
Columbus, OH: 11,314
Seattle/Tacoma: 9,820
Denver: 8,005
Charlotte: 7,895
Cincinnati: 7,780
Detroit: 6,121
Phoenix: 5,417
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 4,897
Austin: 4,443
San Francisco: 4,214
Riverside: 4,076
Sacramento: 2,664
Tampa: 1,889
Las Vegas: 1,379
San Antonio: 982
Orlando: 813
San Jose: 712
San Diego: 697
Swahili and other Central and East African Languages
Dallas/Fort Worth: 19,484
Washington DC: 15,390
Atlanta: 12,641
Seattle/Tacoma: 12,333
New York City: 10,393
Minneapolis/St. Paul: 9,297
Houston: 9,072
Boston: 8,947
Baltimore: 7,669
Phoenix: 7,103
Philadelphia: 6,190
Los Angeles: 5,622
Chicago: 4,936
Denver: 4,734
Columbus, OH: 3,842
San Diego: 3,808
San Francisco: 3,260
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 2,503
Riverside: 2,335
Detroit: 2,043
Las Vegas: 1,721
Sacramento: 1,489
Orlando: 1,022
Tampa: 809
Austin: 512
San Antonio: 433
San Jose: 353
On a different thread you mean? And does Dallas have a significant different Indian population in terms of language and religion than Los Angeles or Washington?
I don't remember L.As but Dallas, SF-SJ, Houston, New York and D.C's seemed radically different from each other and it was on a different thread. But because of this it's part of the reason I think when talking ethnicity India should be measured by number of speakers. I should also say South Asia because Bengali, Punjabi and Urdu clearly cross boundaries into other countries. Theirs's also the issue of a Hindi-Urdu speaker not belonging to a single ethnic group as it is a lingua-Franca spoken by many peoples but like I said ethnicity is the definition of "on a spectrum" and nearly impossible to measure accurately.
The only Indian ethnicity I know of that was large and not represented was the Odisha/Odia speakers. I looked for it but couldn't find the exact thread. I'm sure AASB remembers the thread I'm talking about.
Something interesting was brought up about Sicilian/Italian being different culturally and yes, they are two distinct cultures within Italy. I am Sicilian, we have our own dialect and culture that is unique, I even identify myself as Sicilian rather than Italian (unless in the U.S cause some people can't grasp the concept of different ethnic groups within a nation). With that said, in Canadian Census data, they do classify Sicilian as an ethnic origin, I'm not sure if they do the same in the U.S. We also do the same in South Asian countries or Latin American countries that have their own respective cultures within a modern state boundary. So of course, it would be beneficial to include data of different ethnic groups within a nation (regionally, linguistic, etc..) that have immigrated to U.S cities.
I do. I also threw in African languages. Now my question is how can we use this to refine a diversity ranking or breakdown?
I don't think this sort of thing will get us closer to an all-encompassing ranking of ethnic diversity in the States without doing it for every country in the world. Nationality isn't perfect, but it's a heck of a lot easier. However at the very least, Indian diversity is a neat sub-topic within the scope of ethnic diversity and language seems like an alright tool to dig into it a bit. I took your data on the Indian languages and rearranged it by % for each city...
India (source?)
44% Hindi
8% Bengali
7% Telugu
6% Tamil
5% Gujarati
4% Urdu
3% Malayalam
3% Punjabi
New York City - 660,504 speakers of the 9 languages
22% Bengali
19% Hindi
16% Urdu
12% Gujarati
8% Punjabi
6% Nepali
6% Malayalam
5% Tamil
4% Telugu
Chicago - 206,897 speakers
24% Gujarati
23% Urdu
20% Hindi
9% Telugu
7% Malayalam
6% Tamil
6% Nepali
4% Punjabi
2% Bengali
Dallas - 206,827 speakers
22% Hindi
15% Nepali
14% Telugu
12% Malayalam
12% Urdu
9% Tamil
7% Gujarati
6% Bengali
2% Punjabi
San Francisco - 188,312 speakers
34% Hindi
14% Telugu
11% Nepali
10% Tamil
10% Punjabi
7% Urdu
7% Malayalam
6% Gujarati
3% Bengali
Washington - 182,529 speakers
23% Hindi
21% Urdu
14% Telugu
12% Nepali
9% Bengali
6% Tamil
6% Malayalam
5% Gujarati
4% Punjabi
Houston - 155,996 speakers
31% Urdu
20% Hindi
13% Gujarati
11% Malayalam
8% Nepali
7% Telugu
4% Bengali
3% Tamil
2% Punjabi
Los Angeles - 147,046 speakers
27% Hindi
14% Punjabi
12% Bengali
11% Gujarati
9% Urdu
9% Nepali
7% Tamil
7% Telugu
4% Malayalam
San Jose - 136,415 speakers
30% Hindi
14% Tamil
13% Telugu
10% Nepali
10% Punjabi
9% Malayalam
7% Gujarati
4% Urdu
2% Bengali
Atlanta - 122,120 speakers
26% Hindi
16% Gujarati
14% Telugu
10% Tamil
10% Nepali
8% Urdu
8% Bengali
5% Malayalam
3% Punjabi
Philadelphia - 121,929 speakers
22% Gujarati
16% Hindi
14% Malayalam
12% Urdu
9% Tamil
8% Bengali
7% Telugu
6% Nepali
5% Punjabi
Seattle - 103,857 speakers
32% Hindi
15% Telugu
12% Punjabi
11% Urdu
10% Tamil
8% Malayalam
7% Nepali
3% Bengali
3% Gujarati
Detroit - 100,889 speakers
25% Bengali
16% Hindi
12% Telugu
12% Urdu
9% Gujarati
9% Tamil
7% Malayalam
5% Nepali
4% Punjabi
Boston - 86,530 speakers
28% Hindi
16% Nepali
12% Gujarati
12% Bengali
9% Telugu
9% Tamil
5% Malayalam
5% Punjabi
4% Urdu
Sacramento - 63,061 speakers
40% Hindi
32% Punjabi
7% Urdu
7% Telugu
4% Gujarati
3% Tamil
3% Nepali
2% Bengali
2% Malayalam
Phoenix - 53,285 speakers
30% Hindi
19% Telugu
14% Tamil
13% Punjabi
8% Gujarati
6% Malayalam
4% Urdu
4% Bengali
3% Nepali
Baltimore - 50,148 speakers
20% Nepali
19% Urdu
15% Hindi
14% Gujarati
13% Telugu
7% Punjabi
7% Bengali
4% Tamil
3% Malayalam
Austin - 46,214 speakers
30% Hindi
17% Telugu
12% Nepali
11% Gujarati
10% Urdu
9% Tamil
7% Malayalam
4% Bengali
Miami - 40,463 speakers
25% Urdu
22% Bengali
18% Hindi
9% Malayalam
9% Gujarati
4% Tamil
3% Telugu
3% Nepali
Minneapolis - 38,234 speakers
33% Hindi
17% Tamil
15% Nepali
12% Telugu
6% Gujarati
6% Urdu
6% Malayalam
4% Bengali
1% Punjabi
Raleigh - 33,568 speakers
22% Hindi
20% Telugu
13% Tamil
12% Gujarati
9% Nepali
9% Malayalam
8% Urdu
7% Bengali
Charlotte - 31,671 speakers
27% Hindi
24% Telugu
22% Urdu
15% Tamil
12% Nepali
Riverside - 29,408 speakers
31% Hindi
18% Punjabi
16% Urdu
14% Gujarati
7% Tamil
5% Nepali
4% Telugu
4% Bengali
2% Malayalam
Tampa - 28,951 speakers
24% Hindi
22% Gujarati
13% Telugu
10% Malayalam
10% Urdu
7% Nepali
7% Tamil
5% Bengali
3% Punjabi
Orlando - 28,342 speakers
22% Urdu
21% Hindi
20% Gujarati
11% Bengali
9% Malayalam
9% Telugu
5% Nepali
3% Tamil
1% Punjabi
San Diego - 28,221 speakers
38% Hindi
16% Telugu
15% Tamil
8% Nepali
7% Malayalam
6% Urdu
5% Gujarati
3% Punjabi
2% Bengali
Denver - 23,895 speakers
27% Nepali
15% Hindi
13% Tamil
13% Telugu
12% Malayalam
9% Urdu
Portland - 17,755 speakers
27% Hindi
23% Nepali
19% Telugu
15% Tamil
8% Malayalam
8% Bengali
San Antonio - 11,933 speakers
27% Hindi
19% Tamil
14% Telugu
11% Malayalam
10% Punjabi
9% Urdu
5% Nepali
5% Bengali
Las Vegas - 11,127 speakers
28% Hindi
18% Nepali
16% Urdu
11% Punjabi
8% Gujarati
8% Bengali
5% Malayalam
4% Tamil
1% Telugu
Any Indian-American posters who can illuminate some of these trends? I'm particularly interested in why Punjabi speakers seem to love Sacramento and hate Austin. Or what's behind the Gujarati pluralities in Chicago and Philly? Maybe the numbers are generally too small to pull much? Like Riverside seems to have a large Punjabi percentage, but it only amounts to 5,416 people in an MSA of 4.6 million.
Last edited by Boston Shudra; 12-29-2020 at 04:33 PM..
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