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This.
I'd definitely put Milwaukee on any Top 5 Most Underrated and Misunderstood list.
It's not Detroit. It's not St. Louis. It never fell hard like those. It still has a decent amount of manufacturing, which is a good thing in my opinion, but I'd hesitate to even call it rustbelt anymore with its diverse economy.
Phoenix would basically win the "best place to live a spread-out car-centered suburban lifestyle" between the two, maybe, but not much in the way of visiting, especially if we're strictly talking stuff in the cities themselves.
I say this as someone who generally likes Phoenix.
I have to agree with you and Landolakes90, that I think Milwaukee is a little underrated, when it comes to being well known to those outside the Midwest. And I suspect to some city data users, the things one can do in the Milwaukee metro may not be as well known. I don't deny Phoenix has some cool things to do(like the Desert Botanic Garden or whatever it's called, someone else mentioned), but to me Milwaukee is a little more interesting. And this is coming from someone who has visited Phoenix before, and liked it.
Also I prefer how compact and more dense Milwaukee is, vs. how spread out Phoenix is. Also I like how bikeable the Milwaukee area is, along with bike trails one can take to other parts of the state. I.e. the Ozaukee Interurban Trail(north to Sheboygan), Glacial Drumlin Trail(west to Madison), to name examples. Also it is nice the fact it isn't too far west to southwest Wisconsin(aka the hilly 'driftless' region), is very nice as well.
Like those 2 posters said, I think some people who have stated preferring the Phoenix area, might be underrating the Milwaukee area a little bit. I won't deny Phoenix may perhaps be better in certain ways, i.e. if one is seeking high end shops(some of the ones in and near Scottsdale).
I have to agree with you and Landolakes90, that I think Milwaukee is a little underrated, when it comes to being well known to those outside the Midwest. And I suspect to some city data users, the things one can do in the Milwaukee metro may not be as well known. I don't deny Phoenix has some cool things to do(like the Desert Botanic Garden or whatever it's called, someone else mentioned), but to me Milwaukee is a little more interesting. And this is coming from someone who has visited Phoenix before, and liked it.
Also I prefer how compact and more dense Milwaukee is, vs. how spread out Phoenix is. Also I like how bikeable the Milwaukee area is, along with bike trails one can take to other parts of the state. I.e. the Ozaukee Interurban Trail(north to Sheboygan), Glacial Drumlin Trail(west to Madison), to name examples. Also it is nice the fact it isn't too far west to southwest Wisconsin(aka the hilly 'driftless' region), is very nice as well.
Like those 2 posters said, I think some people who have stated preferring the Phoenix area, might be underrating the Milwaukee area a little bit. I won't deny Phoenix may perhaps be better in certain ways, i.e. if one is seeking high end shops(some of the ones in and near Scottsdale).
Even though Phoenix is more spread out, it's urban area has had a higher overall density than Milwaukee's and as of (at least) 2015, Phoenix has a higher population weighted density than Milwaukee.
I guess if we come up with creative ways to calculate density, Phoenix is dense.
However, most people who have seen the two cities would recognize that Milwaukee is far more urban and compact. Everything it has to offer exists in a much smaller area.
While Milwaukee is a smaller city, it's no slouch. When comparing the two cities, Phoenix of course has the distinct edge from size alone. As a place to visit, Milwaukee's offerings are condensed into a very small area which I think is nice from a visitor point of view.
Of course Phoenix gets a lot of visitors. But, how many of those visitors are snow birds? How many fly into their airport to see nearby National Parks that aren't in the city? How many go to catch Spring Training?
From those perspectives, yeah, it's a place to go, but if you just want to see a cool historic urban city and take all that in, Milwaukee is better.
I guess if we come up with creative ways to calculate density, Phoenix is dense.
However, most people who have seen the two cities would recognize that Milwaukee is far more urban and compact. Everything it has to offer exists in a much smaller area.
While Milwaukee is a smaller city, it's no slouch. When comparing the two cities, Phoenix of course has the distinct edge from size alone. As a place to visit, Milwaukee's offerings are condensed into a very small area which I think is nice from a visitor point of view.
Of course Phoenix gets a lot of visitors. But, how many of those visitors are snow birds? How many fly into their airport to see nearby National Parks that aren't in the city? How many go to catch Spring Training?
From those perspectives, yeah, it's a place to go, but if you just want to see a cool historic urban city and take all that in, Milwaukee is better.
What do you mean creative ways? The US Census recognizes these as ways to calculate density. I'm sure Milwaukee has a better walkable environment, but the metro was still larger than Phoenix metro all the way up until the mid-late 70's. Phoenix has added almost 4 million more people since then.
What do you mean creative ways? The US Census recognizes these as ways to calculate density. I'm sure Milwaukee has a better walkable environment, but the metro was still larger than Phoenix metro all the way up until the mid-late 70's. Phoenix has added almost 4 million more people since then.
Exactly what I was thinking, nothing creative about it at all. You take the population of the urban area and divide it by the square miles.
People don't like when reality doesn't match their biases. Oh no, Phoenix looks different it must be wrong then. HAH
I guess if we come up with creative ways to calculate density, Phoenix is dense.
However, most people who have seen the two cities would recognize that Milwaukee is far more urban and compact. Everything it has to offer exists in a much smaller area.
While Milwaukee is a smaller city, it's no slouch. When comparing the two cities, Phoenix of course has the distinct edge from size alone. As a place to visit, Milwaukee's offerings are condensed into a very small area which I think is nice from a visitor point of view. Of course Phoenix gets a lot of visitors. But, how many of those visitors are snow birds? How many fly into their airport to see nearby National Parks that aren't in the city? How many go to catch Spring Training? From those perspectives, yeah, it's a place to go, but if you just want to see a cool historic urban city and take all that in, Milwaukee is better.
Now the argument is to discount Phoenix because of the type of amenities visitors come for? Give me a friggin break. More people come to Phoenix because there are more things to do, period. And yes, Arizona has bad ass scenery.
No but you can visit things in between along your walk and maybe actually enjoy it, versus driving in traffic.
You can easily walk in Phoenix as well or bike in Phoenix and enjoy it, we're talking about 2 amenities you'll drive for, one being Taliesin West, the other being MIM. The same can be said in most cities. The best concert venue in Denver is not downtown, you're taking a car to Red Rocks. More relevant for this thread, if you're going to the Milwaukee Zoo from downtown you're probably not walking there.
1. Urban Form/Neighborhoods - Milwaukee has more interesting neighborhoods, many of which reflect an ethnic heritage. A lot of the neighborhoods have quirky street patterns and interesting infrastructure (bridges, train crossings, etc.) that reflect a bygone era. There is a lot of interesting architecture, too, such as Victorian, German Renaissance, Queen Anne, etc.
2. Arts/Culture- Phoenix is a bigger city and metro, so has more of some things in this area. Both have a symphony, an opera company, a children's museum, a science museum, a zoo, etc. ASU has a major impact on arts and culture in Phoenix. The colleges in Milwaukee have an important impact, too, but probably not on the same scale. The college music scene and the alternative culture scene in Milwaukee are probably stronger than in Phoenix.
3. Attractions/Entertainment- Phoenix-- same as above. Milwaukee has certain things that Phoenix doesn't have, but overall, Phoenix is bigger and has more.
4. Safety/Comfort- Phoenix has better crime stats than Milwaukee does, and Phoenix is seen as a "newer" suburban-style city anyhow, so that probably tips the hat to Phoenix.
5. Traffic/Transit- Milwaukee. It's very easy to drive around in, many areas are compact for walking, and public transport is decent.
6. Day Trips/Surrounding Communities (as mentioned, within like 45-60 minutes radius)- Milwaukee, overall, though it depends on what you want to do. There are several small artsy suburbs and towns to visit, various state parks and prairies, several small or mid-sized cities with amenities, lots of lakeside and riverside sites to visit. There's lots to do outside of Phoenix, too, but Milwaukee's offerings are more diverse.
7. Parks/Scenery- Milwaukee, overall. Much of the city lakefront is parkland, much of the suburban lakefront is parkland. There is a necklace of parks/green spaces encircling the city, and a major biking/walking trail connecting it all. Milwaukee has a reasonable skyline, and the waterways (rivers, lake) make for some excellent scenery.
8. Food/Drink- I give Milwaukee the edge, but that's because of my personal tastes. Phoenix (including Scottsdale) is known as a culinary hotspot with some celebrity chefs and trendy experiments that make national magazines. The area also has many trendsetting bars. Also, Phoenix has amazing Mexican, Tex-Mex, and gringo Mex food. But Milwaukee also has a thriving Latino population and, as a result, very good Mex options. Beyond that, there are lots of old school ethnic (Serbian, German, Polish, etc.) and American restaurants (diners, stands, lunch counters, delis, etc.) and food trucks that you don't see in the same amount in Phoenix. The high-end options are very good, too. They don't get the press that Phoenix places do, but some are top notch. Milwaukee has its share of trendy cocktail bars, etc., but is known for its beer history and old-school tavern culture--"a bar on every corner." Not quite "every" corner, in reality, but they are abundant.
9. Overall Preference-- Winters: Phoenix. Spring, Summer, and Fall: Milwaukee
However we want to slice and dice it, Milwaukee is more defined by, and more reliant on, it's urban character.
Also, sure, it's a matter of preference, no denying that. Sometimes it's hard to understand the appeal of a place to others if it's not appealing to you.
As a visitor, neither city is likely to keep my interest much past a long weekend in and of themselves. Milwaukee is a bit more fascinating to me.
Phoenix would be a good hub for checking out nearby nature... preferably in December and January.
Even if Phoenix has similarly small lot sizes to end up at a similar population density across the UAs, the different zonings are much more segregated. If you want the urban experience where you can walk around neighborhoods without pre-defined plans and just find interesting things to do, these two cities are in different leagues.
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