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These fell out of the top 75 completely since 2001:
2021 GDP rank:
76. Greensboro (-13; was #63 in 2001)
84. Akron (-10)
86. Toledo (-16)
Ohio cities got hammered in general. California’s tertiary metros saw healthy growth despite no one ever discussing them. Albany seemed to be the star of upstate NY. And Austin’s growth is every bit as spectacular in this chart as it is any where else.
My lifetime starts in 1980. Looking at cities that anchor metros over 1 million I'd say it like this. (Just going down the Wikipedia list for MSA's)
New York - No change
LA - Grown
Chicago - Decreased a bit
Dallas - Grown
Houston - Grown
DC - Grown
Philly - No change
Atlanta - Grown
Miami - Grown
Phoenix - Grown
Boston - Grown
Riverside is a fraud metro
San Francisco - Grown
Detroit - Dropped quite a bit
Seattle - Grown
MSP - About the same
San Diego - Not sure
Tampa - Grown
Denver - Grown
Baltimore - Dropped quite a bit
St. Louis - Dropped quite a bit
Charlotte - Grown a lot
Orlando - Huge jump
San Antonio - About the same
Portland - Grown
Sacramento - Grown
Pittsburgh - Dropped
Austin - Grown a lot
Las Vegas - Grown a lot
Cincinatti - Dropped
Kansas City - Dropped a bit
Columbus - Grown
Indianapolis - Grown
Cleveland - Dropped quite a bit
Nashville - Grown a lot
San Jose is a suburb of San Francisco
Norfolk - Has grown but has probably peaked in this context
Providence - Dropped
Jacksonville - Grown a lot
Milwaukee - Grown
Raliegh - Grown a lot
OKC - Grown a lot
Memphis - Dropped
Richmond - Dropped a bit
Louisville - Dropped
Salt Lake City - Grown a lot
New Orleans - Dropped
Hartford - Dropped
Buffalo - Dropped
Birmingham - Grown but has probably peaked in this metric
Grand Rapids - Grown
Rochester - Dropped
Tucson - Grown
Tulsa - Not sure
Fresno - Grown
Honolulu - Grown but has probably peaked in this metric
Agree with almost all of these except SA. It should be in the same category as Charlotte. In 1990 it was 1.1 million, same as Charlotte, and both have 2.6 million now.
I decided to look at the 75 largest MSA’s by GDP in 2021, and then compare them to their rank from 2001. Not overall GDP change, simply their placement on the list.
2021 largest GDPs by MSA:
1. New York City (-; no change, was #1 in 2001)
2. Los Angeles (-)
3. Chicago (-)
4. San Francisco (+2; was #6 in 2001)
5. DC (-1; was #4 in 2001)
6. Dallas (+2)
7. Houston (+2)
8. Boston (-1)
9. Seattle (+4)
10. Philadelphia (-5)
11. Atlanta (-1)
12. Miami (-)
13. San Jose (+3)
14. Phoenix (+1)
15. Minneapolis (-1)
16. Detroit (-5)
17. San Diego (-)
18. Denver (-)
19. Baltimore (-)
20. Riverside (+5)
21. Charlotte (+6)
22. Austin (+16)
23. Tampa (-)
24. St. Louis (-4)
25. Portland (+1)
26. Cincinnati (-2)
27. Pittsburgh (-5)
28. Orlando (+4)
29. Nashville (+10)
30. Indianapolis (-1)
31. Sacramento (-1)
32. Columbus (-1)
33. Kansas City (-5)
34. Cleveland (-13)
35. San Antonio (+5)
36. Vegas (+1)
37. Salt Lake City (+11)
38. Milwaukee (-5)
39. Raleigh (+14)
40. Virginia Beach (-4)
That’s pretty interesting. Seems like among all “big cities” only Philly and Detroit are really losing ground. Atlanta and Dc saw drops largely because of 1 city going through an abnormal boom with not that much real estate around it. Boston is actually on pace to resurpass Houston this year or next year.
Chicago is muted a bit just cause it fills a pretty huge void. But has drifted distinctly towards 4 and away from 2. Even if nobody surpassed it
I decided to look at the 75 largest MSA’s by GDP in 2021, and then compare them to their rank from 2001. Not overall GDP change, simply their placement on the list.
2021 largest GDPs by MSA:
1. New York City (-; no change, was #1 in 2001)
2. Los Angeles (-)
3. Chicago (-)
4. San Francisco (+2; was #6 in 2001)
5. DC (-1; was #4 in 2001)
6. Dallas (+2)
7. Houston (+2)
8. Boston (-1)
9. Seattle (+4)
10. Philadelphia (-5)
11. Atlanta (-1)
12. Miami (-)
13. San Jose (+3)
14. Phoenix (+1)
15. Minneapolis (-1)
16. Detroit (-5)
17. San Diego (-)
18. Denver (-)
19. Baltimore (-)
20. Riverside (+5)
21. Charlotte (+6)
22. Austin (+16)
23. Tampa (-)
24. St. Louis (-4)
25. Portland (+1)
26. Cincinnati (-2)
27. Pittsburgh (-5)
28. Orlando (+4)
29. Nashville (+10)
There needs to be some context to these rankings, this is not an apples to apples comparison. The 2001 metro GDP numbers were based off metro alignments from the 1990s. The metro alignments from the 1990s we pre-CSA. So for instance Detroits MSA included both Flint, and Ann Arbor and had 5.4 million people. In 2021 Flint, Ann Arbor and Monroe are excluded from Detroits MSA. That consideration would include cities like Greensboro which was lumped in with Winston Salem and High Point in the 1990s alignment. Several other metros are significantly different since that realignment as well. Unless this a comparison of the exact county alignments within the same time frames I would not look at this list as statistically accurate.
There needs to be some context to these rankings, this is not an apples to apples comparison. The 2001 metro GDP numbers were based off metro alignments from the 1990s. The metro alignments from the 1990s we pre-CSA. So for instance Detroits MSA included both Flint, and Ann Arbor and had 5.4 million people. In 2021 Flint, Ann Arbor and Monroe are excluded from Detroits MSA. That consideration would include cities like Greensboro which was lumped in with Winston Salem and High Point in the 1990s alignment. Several other metros are significantly different since that realignment as well. Unless this a comparison of the exact county alignments within the same time frames I would not look at this list as statistically accurate.
No, they are today’s alignments. The Durham MSA didn’t exist in 2001 for instance. It’s using today’s county configuration while providing data from specific years. You’ll find the Greensboro MSA and the Winston-Salem MSA on there for 2001.
Generally the cursed geographic belt of the Upper South and Lower Midwest that sees their metro areas become much less relevant over time as the New South and areas of the West rapidly pass them up over time. Such metros include:
Cincinnati
Louisville
St. Louis
Kansas City
Generally the cursed geographic belt of the Upper South and Lower Midwest that sees their metro areas become much less relevant over time as the New South and areas of the West rapidly pass them up over time. Such metros include:
Cincinnati
Louisville
St. Louis
Kansas City
I don’t know that I fully agree with this full list. In my lifetime (born in the early 80’s), Louisville has never had any professional sports teams, even going back 30 plus years. If anything, things like the Kentucky Derby, more Bourbon marketing, University of Louisville athletics, etc. have slightly elevated its profile. It’s not like it was a major city that completely dropped in stature. Kansas City is similar. Now they haven’t taken off like other cities in the new south or west coast, but I can’t say they are less relevant in my lifetime (40 years).
St. Louis and Cincinnati, I can agree with. When I was a kid, I remember St. Louis being thought of as more of a “major city”, rather than the more “mid-sized city” it’s viewed as now. They had 3 professional sports teams, but in my lifetime they’ve lost TWO NFL teams (the Cardinals and more recently the Rams, which they got in 1995, and the lost a couple years ago). Cincinnati was always more of a midsized city, but it seemed a lot more high profile than it is now. So, in my lifetime, I can definitely agree with St. Louis and Cincy being less relevant.
I think a lot of people's reaction is based on the fact that they prefer Pittsburgh's brick, and sometimes, rowhouse, residential development as opposed to Cleveland's mainly wood-frame of largely bland (to some) Cleveland Doubles with some housing areas of town resembling Tobacco Road. (nevermind the fact there are many of these same areas are interspersed with handsome old brick/stone walk-up apts with several beautiful Victorian wood frames and even brick & stone terrace row-apartment houses. I don't begrudge people's preferences. Overall, I probably prefer Pittsburgh's housing stock, too.
But I still don't understand this belief that "... it's pretty much undeniable Pittsburgh is in better shape the Cleveland." Corporate-wise, yes, there are more corporate HQs downtown in Pittsburgh (US Steel, PPG, Westinghouse), esp after Cleveland took major hits in the 80s after Standard Oil of Ohio was merged into BP and left. from that standpoint, yes.
But neighborhood-wise? No. While downtown Pittsburgh's daytime office-worker environment is stronger than its Cleveland counterpart, likely leading to the fact that downtown retail is stronger in Pittsburgh -- admittedly Cleveland downtown retail sucks right now but improvements may be on the way (hopefully Sherwin-Williams' new highrise HQ, currently rising, will help turn things around -- residentially, downtown Cleveland kicks Pittsburgh's butt, and it's not even close. Office building adaptive reuse has been off the chain in downtown Cleveland and ground-up new apartment mid and highrise apartment buildings are going up left & right downtown, as well as in uber-hot, just across the river Ohio City. It's to the point where downtown Cleveland very much feels like a 15-hour residential neighborhood -- joggers, dog walkers, robust grocery shopping, and restaurants all over the place, whereby downtown Pittsburgh is nowhere close to this.
And neighborhoods? Where is this major Pittsburgh advantage? For every Oakland, Cleveland can counter with booming University Circle/Little Italy/lower Glenville (and I prefer the latter). Strip District? I'll take Tremont or Detroit-Shoreway/Gordon Sq... Station Square? Gimme the Flats, no question -- you can even throw in quietly emerging North Coast Harbor around the Rock & Roll HOF. Squirrel Hill? Shaker Sq-Larchmere-west Shaker Heights counters (and there's no Pittsburgh answer to Cleveland's lush Edgewater neighborhood of mansions, beaches, and walkable old areas, too); East Liberty-Shadyside-Bloomfield? Ohio City-Duck Island-Hingetown all day, every day.
And when it comes to diverse, high-quality suburbs, Cleveland puts most cities (certainly comparable-sized metro areas and even larger ones) to shame... including Pittsburgh, whose suburbs collectively.
, are in Cleveland's rear-view mirror.
The main thing is University Circle/Little Italy is great, but if it were Pittsburgh it would be where Cuyahoga Community College is rather than like 3 sorta depressed neighborhoods away from Playhouse Sq.
Similarly Southside Flats really doesn’t have an equal in Cleveland.
If you’re a visitor Pittsburgh does present better cause all the nice things are really concentrated. It’s downtown is more buzzing. Cleveland is a little more strung out. And the City of Cleveland is poorer than Pittsburgh.
You’re correct Cleveland have much nicer suburbs. Pittsburgh doesn’t have an equal to Lakewood or Shaker Heights. But tourists don’t go there. So there is a false narrative Pittsburgh did better than Cleveland regionally because the core 4-5 sq miles present very different.
Also I agree I’d the Brick Bias. You see that in Philly vs Boston where people are adamant Philly is so much bigger, when it isn’t.
That’s pretty interesting. Seems like among all “big cities” only Philly and Detroit are really losing ground. Atlanta and Dc saw drops largely because of 1 city going through an abnormal boom with not that much real estate around it. Boston is actually on pace to resurpass Houston this year or next year.
Chicago is muted a bit just cause it fills a pretty huge void. But has drifted distinctly towards 4 and away from 2. Even if nobody surpassed it
These fell out of the top 75 completely since 2001:
2021 GDP rank:
76. Greensboro (-13; was #63 in 2001)
84. Akron (-10)
86. Toledo (-16)
Ohio cities got hammered in general. California’s tertiary metros saw healthy growth despite no one ever discussing them. Albany seemed to be the star of upstate NY. And Austin’s growth is every bit as spectacular in this chart as it is any where else.
You're not supposed to talk about all of the inland CA cities that have been growing in wealth and population over the last few decades, it doesn't match the narrative of a state in decline that "everyone" is fleeing. Bakersfield, Fresno, Stockton, all growing in relevance.
Stockton has added more residents since 2000 than Boise, but again, it just not something people want to hear.
I'm sure none of them will continue to rise in relevance once they open the nation's first and only HSR stations!
I remember there being some popular effort to make Tucson seem like its rising in relevance, but I guess people gave up on that and the GDP ranking helps explain it.
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